澳洲广播电台第八集：面向亚洲(页 1) - 澳洲留学移民 - 澳大利亚广播电台 -

澳洲广播电台第八集：面向亚洲

近年来，澳大利亚对亚洲越来越重视，逐渐削弱了澳大利亚先后与英、美建立的纽带关系。许多澳大利亚人都认为进一步加深对本地区的了解有助于促进相互交流、加强地区安全和实现共同繁荣。

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中文详细内容
[quote]
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
大家好，我是苏·斯拉梅，欢迎收听澳洲广播电台的系列节目“今日澳洲”。
今天的节目是“面向亚洲”。
今天我们邀请了三位澳大利亚的亚洲问题专家，他们一直致力于增进澳大利亚年轻人对亚洲的了解。
从事亚洲研究的学者们认为，澳大利亚加深对这个地区的了解，将会促进该地区的繁荣和区域安全。
二零零二年巴厘岛爆炸事件后，澳大利亚国库部长兼副总理彼得·科斯特洛也强调了这一点。他敦促澳大利亚人从巴厘岛恐怖事件中吸取沉痛教训，这就是必须加强--而不是减弱--与亚洲的交往。
[b]彼得·科斯特洛：[/b]
上周末的事件再次明确而沉痛地提醒我们所有的人，澳大利亚和亚洲密不可分。亚洲的安全问题就是我们的安全问题，亚洲的未来会影响我们的未来。亚洲国家如何迎接所面临的巨大挑战与澳大利亚的国家利益息息相关。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
为了强调亚洲对于澳大利亚所具有的战略重要性，澳大利亚国库部长曾经在亚洲协会的澳大拉西亚中心的一次演讲中，向听众指出这样一个事实：澳大利亚大约百分之五十八的货物和服务都出口到了东亚地区--其中日本是澳大利亚最大的出口市场。
同样，澳大利亚百分之四十七的进口来自于东亚国家。澳大利亚与亚洲之间的往来不只局限于贸易方面。二零零一年人口普查显示，有一百三十多万澳大利亚人称自己有亚洲血统。
澳大利亚亚洲研究协会在一份题为《在最大程度上增进澳大利亚对亚洲的了解》的报告中详尽地阐述了与亚洲交往的重要性。
该协会会长、同时也是这份报告作者之一的泰萨·莫里斯·铃木也认为，澳大利亚应该比世界上任何其他国家付出更多的努力，以增强民众对亚洲的了解。
[b]泰萨·莫里斯·铃木：[/b]
澳大利亚地处亚洲地区，我们的经济前景，我们国家的安全都与这个地区息息相关，这一直都是一个不争的事实。然而，对于很多澳大利亚人来说，了解亚洲国家要比了解美国或英国多费一些力气。因为，我们通过媒体，比如英美的电视节目，自然而然就了解到很多关于英美国家的信息。但关于亚洲的信息却少得多。尽管我们一直都觉得亚洲至关重要，但我认为最近发生的事件更突出强调了这一重要性。对付恐怖分子的威胁，显然需要全面了解这个地区的动态。从更广泛的意义上来讲，安全也就意味生活之中没有恐惧。要做到这一点，整个澳大利亚社会必须对亚洲有一个很好的了解，因为恐惧往往源于无知或误解。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
泰萨·莫里斯·铃木教授讲日语，目前在堪培拉的澳大利亚国立大学教授亚洲历史。
澳大利亚亚洲研究协会的报告显示了长久以来学者们对亚洲的关注，并对那些从事该领域学术研究和为民间交往奠定基础的人们给予了充分的肯定。
约翰·菲茨杰拉德教授回忆说，像澳大利亚学者C·P·菲茨杰拉德（两位菲茨杰拉德之间没有任何血缘关系）所撰写的关于中国革命的著作已成为中国政治史课程的标准教材……
[b]约翰·菲茨杰拉德：[/b]
战争一结束——我们必须记住这场战争，因为第二次世界大战和太平洋战争曾威胁到澳大利亚的国家安全。战争一结束，在澳大利亚政府的支持下，一些澳大利亚大学大力资助和提倡开展对亚洲的研究和学习相关国家的语言。澳大利亚国立大学便是其中之一。澳大利亚国立大学前身是一个研究所，那时研究所曾邀请查理斯·帕特里克·菲茨杰拉德教授，也就是C·P·菲茨杰拉德，来澳创立中国史研究的学科。但实际上他并不是一个专业的历史学家，只不过在中国工作、生活过许多年。他是一位中国历史的业余研究者，写了一两本关于中国南方风土人情和山区部落的书。不过C·P·菲茨杰拉德与一些驻重庆，后来是驻南京的澳大利亚外交官私交不错，其中包括基斯·华莱士爵士、弗雷德里克·埃格尔斯顿爵士和基斯·奥菲斯。我想，正是通过与澳大利亚外交官和安全官员的交往，他开始意识到作为一个国家和民族，澳大利亚很有必要与中国、日本及其他亚洲国家建立友好关系。查理斯·帕特里克·菲茨杰拉德非常同情当时的中国革命，而当时在世界的其他地方，我想主要是北美，一场对中国革命同情者进行政治迫害的运动正在进行之中。在美国，很多优秀的中国问题专家也因此遭到迫害。然而在澳大利亚没有出现这种情况。澳大利亚创建了独立的学术网络专门研究中国问题，而且从一开始就表现出不同于北美及欧洲的中国研究的特点。澳大利亚的中国研究不仅很认真地研究地区性问题，而且对中国革命持同情态度，认为中国革命正是普通民众在饱受一个多世纪外国势力的侵略和凌辱之后的觉醒与反抗。作为历史学家，C·P·菲茨杰拉德在澳大利亚出版的第一本著作是《现代中国之诞生》。这本书在国际上影响很大，事实上这也是对其他英语国家学术界不同情中国革命的反对。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
约翰·菲茨杰拉德是墨尔本拉特罗布大学的亚洲研究教授，会讲汉语。
虽然澳大利亚的亚洲问题学者致力于增进澳大利亚对亚洲的了解，但是亚洲人眼中的澳大利亚形象却没有与时俱进。
罗宾·杰弗里教授在拉特罗布大学讲授政治学，能讲印地语，还经常访问印度。在印度，很多人还认为澳大利亚依旧推行“白澳政策”，尽管这一限制性移民政策在二十世纪七十年代初就已经被正式废除了。
[b]罗宾·杰弗里：[/b]
我觉得目前在印度国内，人们对澳大利亚的热情并不怎么高。即使是今天，当人们面对你时，通常他们的第一反应还是白人的澳大利亚，印度人太熟悉这个形象了。早在印度民族主义运动时，澳大利亚的种族主义移民政策就臭名昭著了。这一政策的阴魂在印度仍然挥之不散。在澳印关系中，看似矛盾的一点就是，两国关系已经有二百多年的历史了，加之语言相通，因此两国间互相交流的可能性极大，但这种相互作用和影响并没有充分发挥出来。这是一个矛盾体，而且没有人能够对这个谜一样的矛盾现实给出令人满意的解释。对此有各种各样的理论解释，但是没有一种具有说服力。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
泰萨，日本对澳大利亚怎么看呢？我们仍然被看作一个白人在亚洲的前哨吗？
泰萨·莫里斯·铃木：我想日本这方面的情况很有意思。对普通百姓而言，人们对澳大利亚的总体印象在某种程度上与旅游、野生动物、自然、考拉熊和体育联系在一起。比如说澳大利亚游泳健将伊恩·索普现正风靡日本。但是在学术一点的层面上，日本人近来对澳大利亚的多元文化主义及其对亚洲事务的参与产生了浓厚的兴趣。因为和澳大利亚一样，日本本身也存在着与亚洲国家交往的问题。此外，虽然在传统意义上日本一直被认为是一个人种单一的国家，但事实上外国人的数量在不断增加，多元文化问题也已在日本出现。所以我们看到许多日本学者来到澳大利亚，试图了解多元文化的澳大利亚是怎么回事。但是，前些年澳大利亚对多元文化那种高涨的热情，如今已经没有那么明显了。两个星期前，我有一个在日本大学里工作的朋友来澳大利亚。我们一起去了一个书店，他环顾四周，然后非常失望地说，“那些关于多元文化的书都到哪里去了？” 我注意到以前这样的书的确非常多，但现在都不见了。所以我认为现在在日本人心目中澳大利亚的形象多少有一点模棱两可。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
约翰，我想问你一个问题，我们看到现在许许多多的中国人来澳大利亚定居，从一般意义上说，这是不是反映了中国人对澳大利亚的印象和看法呢？
[b]约翰·菲茨杰拉德：[/b]
是的，应该说，对中国尤其是这样。但同时，在中国，人们对波琳·汉森仍然记忆犹新。六年前，汉森所发表的言论引起了一场群众运动。虽然在联邦议会的一百二十席中，她只赢得了一个代表席位，影响不大，但是，这场风潮使东南亚和东亚地区产生了这样一个印象，这就是，‘白澳政策’仍然存在，而且势头强劲。要改变人们的这种印象非常难。事实上，我认为，在澳大利亚提倡亚洲研究的原因之一就是，鼓励人们了解亚洲人心目中的澳大利亚形象，理解亚洲人的这种想法，并且在需要予以纠正的地方加以纠正。正如你所说的，现在很多中国人来到澳大利亚，在这里定居，有的人有亲戚在澳大利亚。举例来说，如果我个人到中国旅行，或者我的学生到中国旅行，只要听到有人提到‘白澳’，你可以马上说，‘啊，你没有朋友在那儿吗？’还可以说，‘哦，我有一个朋友在墨尔本。他只是五十万华裔澳大利亚人中的一员。’人们可以把这两个事实放在一起：一，澳大利亚曾经有种族主义的历史，这是毫无疑问的；二，五十万中国人的后裔在这里工作、生活，克服各种困难并顺利地适应这里的一切，同时他们与在中国及东南亚地区的亲朋好友联系密切。由于澳大利亚华人在各个领域所起的作用，以及他们在澳大利亚和亚洲其他国家之间扮演的中间者的角色，以前那种旧的印象正在逐步改变。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
澳大利亚亚洲研究协会的报告《在最大程度上增进澳大利亚对亚洲的了解》强调了这样一个事实，那就是，对众多澳大利亚人来说，与亚洲国家的交往已经成为生活的一个组成部分——不论是贸易往来、政府公干，还是旅游、求学，或是移民。
但是，该报告的组织者之一罗宾·杰弗里提醒人们，二十世纪八十、九十年代出现的亚洲研究热潮，并不是自然而然形成的。
[b]罗宾·杰弗里：[/b]
我们的起点很低。八十年代末一个与我们相似的调查显示，当时，我们只有百分之二到百分之三的大学本科生从事亚洲研究的学习。在八十年代末和九十年代初，一些相关领域的研究突飞猛进，但是这几年的情况却不尽人意，我认为有两个或者说三个原因，第一个原因是，由于亚洲经济的衰退，澳大利亚就减少了对亚洲的关注。因为家长和学校的就业指导教师会对学生说，就目前情况看，从事亚洲研究不会有什么太大的发展前途，所以在大学里就不要选这方面的课程了。第二个相关的因素是，在过去的六、七年中，澳大利亚大学一直面临着严重的财政困难，因此就开始裁员，在社会科学、人文科学和语言类这些专业尤其如此。这样一来，随着相关专业的师资减少，进行亚洲研究的可能性也逐步下降。这两个因素又促成了第三个原因，即在过去的六、七年里，澳大利亚公共生活中对亚洲问题有意进行了低调处理，政界人士这样做，大学行政管理部门也含蓄地采取了类似的行动，很多大学在不得不节省开支的情况下，撤消了某些特定的专业。上述三个因素共同导致了在澳大利亚大学的亚洲研究专业中出现某些领域停滞不前，甚至退步的现象。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
是的，刚才您提到了亚洲金融危机。但那些学生本来想通过学习一门亚洲语言找工作或同亚洲做做生意，最终都放弃了。我想，您应该可以理解为什么学生们会这么做。但是，约翰，如果想一想亚洲地区的经济状况，想一想中国正在成为这个地区经济增长的引擎，你是不是觉得学生们的想法有点无法理解？
约翰·菲茨杰拉德：
是的，我觉得，首先我们掌握的数据并不完全一致。学习印尼语的人数相对减少了，但是学习中文情况并非如此。在其它亚洲语言都不很景气的时候，中文课程却热火朝天。这是为什么呢？首先，因为我们好多朋友都来自中国，许多澳大利亚人都有中国背景。他们在华人圈里有自己的朋友。那些朋友都想用中文和他们交流。其次，澳中民间来往频繁。大概每年都有十万名澳大利亚人往返于澳中之间，这种情况已经持续了二十五年。加在一起，这些澳大利亚人的数量就很大了。现在的情况是，在将来的几年内每年会有数以十万计的中国游客来澳大利亚。当然，其中有不少的人是来洽谈商务的，有些已经在澳大利亚很多年了。不过，旅游也是一种产业，一种文化产业，会促进人与人之间的交往，促进语言的学习。第三，学生们从父母和他们自己的朋友圈里，了解到中国、台湾和香港有不少就业机会。
[b]罗宾·杰弗里：[/b]
约翰说得不错，但我们还应该看一看总体形势。二零零二年澳大利亚大学中共有八十三万名学生，包括在职的和全日制学生。去年，学习中文的学生最多不超过六千名。这在大学生总数中的比例很小。虽说学习中文的情况确实好于其它亚洲语言，但这一比例还是太小了。学习亚洲语言的本科生只占学生总数的百分之三或更少。八十三万人的百分之三也就是几万人吧，我觉得这和学习英语、德语、法语或俄语的瑞士人、荷兰人或瑞典人的数量无法相比。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
泰萨，下面我们来看看日本的情况。亚洲金融危机爆发前，日本曾是澳大利亚最大的贸易伙伴之一，更不用说文化交流和来澳大利亚的日本游客人数了。日语学习的情况怎么样呢？
[b]泰萨·莫里斯·铃木：[/b]
学习日语情况比较复杂。日语学习没有像一些其他方面那样受到严重影响，但是二十世纪八十年代末九十年代初出现的日语和日本研究热已经降温了。很明显，这与日本经济的下滑有关。我觉得，在某种程度上，这也反映了早期日语学习者的过度乐观心理。有些人可能想，他们只要学上两年，就能说一口流利的日语，找到一份薪水丰厚的工作。可事实上，这两个目的都不太可能实现。另外，我想就刚才罗宾谈到的亚洲学生招生人数下降的原因，作一些补充。我认为，问题之一是，上个世纪八十年代末、九十年代初时我们大力推广亚洲研究，这样大家就觉得在这一领域我们好像已经做了不少的工作，所以我们应该转向其它领域了。但是，我们忽视了要继续发展亚洲研究，确实需要长期不懈的努力，需要有带头人，需要鼓励和推进。因为，正如罗宾所说，我们的起点很低。而且，对母语是英语的学生来说，学习中文或日语真的非常困难。所以，长期的激励和浓厚的学习兴趣尤为重要。我觉得，这也是我们撰写那份报告的初衷之一。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
这里是“今日澳洲”系列节目之八--“面向亚洲”。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
泰萨，我们国家的民族日趋多元化，从推进健康的多元文化社会、发展健康的民族关系的角度来说，你觉得从小学就开始学习亚洲语言是不是也很重要？
[b]泰萨·莫里斯·铃木：[/b]
是的，我觉得这很重要。从广义的教育目标来看，这确实很重要。因为，学习外语真的能拓宽视野，尤其当这种外语和你平时在教室里说的语言迥然不同时是如此。这样有助于了解你自己，使你从一个新的角度看待你过去想当然的各种事情。所以，即使那些孩子将来不继续学习那些语言，这也是特别重要的教育经历。”
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
好，约翰，再问你最后一个问题，在有的国家，宗教和文化是生命攸关的重大问题。在当今形势下，跨文化交流和理解其它国家的文化与宗教是否已成为当务之急？
[b]约翰·菲茨杰拉德：[/b]
嗯，的确如此。我们生活在一个多元化的社会中，在学校里很容易就能够学到所需的跨文化交流。我的孩子在墨尔本市内的一个州立学校上学。在学校里，大概百分之五十的学生都有亚洲血统，都是亚裔澳大利亚人。在这所公立学校，学生们能学到有关亚洲的知识，或者一门亚洲语言，也能学到多元化的东西。他们和来自世界各地的朋友交流，尤其是那些来自印度、巴基斯坦、斯里兰卡、中国、香港、台湾、马来西亚、新加坡以及印度尼西亚的朋友。而且在某种程度上，了解亚洲已经成为学校教育的一部分，成为学生们正常交往中的一部分。目前这已经成为在学校里了解亚洲的一种方法。当然，中学一直就开设有亚洲历史这门课，而现在从某种意义上来讲，是历史教材中包含了亚洲的内容。同样的，数学课里也有亚洲的内容，自然科学课中也有亚洲的内容。在过去的十年里出现了这样一种趋势：在普通课程设置中增加亚洲的内容，这样，亚洲内容就变成课程设置中的有机组成部分。亚洲国家也不再是陌生的国度，需要我们加深了解才能与之共处。这种把亚洲融入正规中学教育体系之中的作法在过去十年中越来越普遍，我们相信在未来的十年、二十年里，将保持同样的发展势头。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
如果你们写这份报告是出于某种危机感，由于澳大利亚对亚洲的了解不够而产生了危机，那么你们是不是每个人都觉得可以做些什么来化解这个危机？
[b]罗宾·杰弗里：[/b]
我想到一个相似的例子，这就是一九五七年苏联发射的人造地球卫星，这成为了美国教育体制发生改变的催化剂。第二年美国就通过了《国家教育防卫法案》，刺激了随后三十年里亚洲地区研究领域的蓬勃发展。许多人都说，这件事产生了很好的结果，也因此造就了大批才华横溢的美国学者、外交官和商人，还促进了国家之间的相互理解。我认为，澳大利亚正需要这样的经历，这也是危机、危险和机遇可能带来的积极结果。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
泰萨，二战后我国和日本一直保持长期稳定的关系，那么了解日本这个经济强国到底有多重要呢？
[b]泰萨·莫里斯·铃木：[/b]
我认为这是很重要的。如果把范围再扩大一些，接下来的几年中，东北亚的变化发展将对这个地区起到举足轻重的作用。尤其是涉及到目前的朝鲜半岛问题，日本和北朝鲜关系正常化的问题上，危险与机遇并存。目前正是谈判最紧张的一个阶段。在所有这些问题上，澳大利亚都能够发挥积极的作用，与日韩合作，协调解决一些问题。我认为，在整个亚洲地区，当前的危机要求澳大利亚人在政府层面以及社会各个层面展开对话，不仅讨论如何应对迫在眉睫的安全问题，而且讨论如何解决长远的发展和人权问题。这些问题在某种程度上都由于目前出现的安全和恐怖主义危机而显得尤为突出。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
是的，这很有讽刺意味。我们提到亚洲的时候，好像亚洲离我们很远；而实际上，我们这里来自亚洲各地的人越来越多，我们有华人社区、有日益扩大的印度人社区，还有为数众多的在南半球学习的亚洲学生。约翰，这是否正好的显示了我们目前对亚洲地区的关注呢？
[b]约翰·菲茨杰拉德：[/b]
是的，这就是我们目前面临的机遇。今天参加讨论的我们三个人，在过去的一二十年里一直从事推广亚洲研究的学术研究工作，我们都在变老。在《在最大程度上增进澳大利亚对亚洲的了解》的报告中，我们强调了一个事实，那就是我们的事业需要接班人。目前在澳大利亚大学中从事亚洲研究的教师和科研工作者需要培养新一代接班人来继续这一项事业。事实上，我们最好的学生正是来自中国、东亚以及东南亚的移民。我们也许会看到下一代澳大利亚的亚洲研究专家们都有着亚洲血统。这将是我国亚洲研究的重大发展。我们希望并鼓励出现这样的变化,我们要很好地利用这个机会。实际上，如果在澳大利亚大学的亚洲研究和亚洲语言教学领域出现危机，就应该由大学自己来化解这个危机。我们自己和全国各地同仁应该利用这个机会培养下一代，并鼓励他们致力于推动对亚洲和澳大利亚的研究，促进这一地区对澳大利亚的了解。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
今天的讨论到这里就结束了。感谢墨尔本拉特罗布大学的约翰·菲茨杰拉德教授和罗宾·杰弗里教授，堪培拉澳大利亚国立大学的泰萨·莫里斯·铃木教授。
他们为澳大利亚亚洲研究中心协会共同撰写了题目为《在最大程度上增进澳大利亚对亚洲的了解》的报告。
这里是澳洲广播电台的苏·斯拉梅，期待您收听我们的下期节目，主题是“人口大辩论”。
十九世纪，我们的口号是“不生育便灭亡”；在当代，澳大利亚的移民计划保持了人口的适度增长。
感谢赖安·厄甘的技术制作以及莫纳什大学全国澳大利亚研究中心的学术指导。

[/quote]

英文详细内容
[quote]
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Hello I'm Sue Slamen and welcome to Radio Australia's series AUSTRALIA NOW.

Today, 'COMING TO TERMS WITH ASIA'.

Shortly we'll hear from three of Australia's Asia scholars who've been working to help young Australians become more Asia-literate.

Those who teach Asian studies believe that a deepening of Australians' knowledge of the region can only enhance the region's prosperity AND regional security.

And that's a message the Australian Treasurer and Deputy Prime Minister reinforced after the 2002 Bali bombings. Peter Costello urged Australians to draw an important lesson from the horrific events in Bali, that they must deepen - not weaken - their engagement with Asia.

[b]PETER COSTELLO:[/b] "The events of last weekend have reminded us all again too clearly and too painfully how Australia and Asia are inextricably linked. Asia's security problems are our security problems, Asia's future will influence our future, and Australia has a vital interest in the way the countries of the region deal with the immense challenges before them."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] To underscore the strategic importance of Asia to Australia, the Australian Treasurer reminded an audience at The Asia Society's Australasian Centre that around 58 per cent of Australian exports of goods and services go to East Asia - with Japan Australia's largest export market.

By the same token the East Asian group of economies provide 47 per cent of all imports into Australia. And interactions go beyond trade; in the 2001 Census more than 1.3 million Australians claim Asian ancestry.

The importance of Australia's engagement with Asia was amplified in a report produced by the Australian Asian Studies Association, titled, MAXIMISING AUSTRALIA's ASIAN KNOWLEDGE.

The Association's President and one of the report's authors, Tessa Morris Suzuki reflects the Association's view that Australia should make a special effort to educate its citizens about Asia more perhaps than any other part of the world.

[b]TESSA MORRIS SUZUKI:[/b] "This has been true for a long time, Australia is part of the region, our economic future, our security future is integrally tied to the region. And yet for many people in Australia it requires a bit more effort to know about Asian countries than it does to know about the United States or Britain because for example we receive so much information automatically through the media from US television for example, from British television. We receive far less from Asia. So it's always been true that Asia's been extremely important, but I do think that that's been highlighted by the recent events. Responding to terrorist threats clearly requires a very thorough knowledge of what's happening in the region, but in a broader sense I think security is also about living without fear and in order to do that it's really important for people throughout the Australian community to have a good knowledge of Asia, because you fear what you don't know and what you don't understand properly."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Professor Tessa Morris Suzuki, a Japanese speaker who teaches Asian History at the Australian National University in Canberra.

The Australian Asian Studies Association's report points to long-standing scholarly interest in Asia and pays tribute to those who laid the foundations of research and people-to-people relations.

Australian scholars like C.P Fitzgerald whose account of China's revolution became a standard text for students of Chinese political history as Professor John Fitzgerald (no relation) recalls …

[b]JOHN FITZGERALD:[/b] "Immediately after the War; and we must remember the war, the Second World War and the Pacific War was for Australia a major security issue. Immediately after the war a number of Australian universities with the support of the Australian government invested substantially in the promotion of the study of Asia and its languages. One was the Australian National University, the institute that later became the ANU, which invited Professor Charles Patrick Fitzgerald, C.P. Fitzgerald to come to Australia to found the study of Chinese history in this country. Now as it happens C.P.'s background was not as a professional historian but rather as somebody who had lived and worked in China for many years, who had himself rather as an amateur undertaken the study of Chinese history and who'd written a couple of books on local communities and hill tribes in the south of China. But he was on quite friendly terms with a number of Australian diplomats in Chungking and later Nanking, Sir Keith Wallace, Sir Frederick Eggleston, Keith Officer, and came to appreciate through his connections with I suppose the foreign affairs and security networks in Australia that there was a very real need for Australia as a country, for Australia as a people to come to terms with China, with Japan, with other states in the region. Charles Patrick Fitzgerald was very, very sympathetic to the Chinese revolution at a time when in other parts of the world, I'm thinking chiefly of North America there was something of a witch-hunt underway against anybody who sympathised with the Chinese revolution, and many of the finest China scholars in the US were hounded from their positions. This wasn't the case in Australia, Australia was able to setup its own independent scholarly sort of network specialising on China and from the outset it distinguished itself from North American and European scholarship by taking regional issues seriously, and looking sympathetically at the revolution in China as a revolution which in many ways met the aspirations of ordinary people after more than a century of humiliation and invasion by foreign powers. And his first book as an historian in Australia, "The Birth of Modern China" was very, very influential internationally and helped in fact to counter much of the more unsympathetic kind of scholarship coming from other parts of the English-speaking world."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] John Fitzgerald, a Mandarin speaker who's Professor of Asian Studies at Melbourne's La Trobe University.

While Australia's Asia scholars have been working to promote a better understanding of Asia within Australia, perceptions of Australia in Asia are often quite out of date.

Professor Robin Jeffrey, a Hindi speaker who teaches Political Science at La Trobe is a regular visitor to India where many people believe that 'the White Australia policy', that program of restricted immigration, still operates - even though it was officially brought to an end in the early nineteen seventies.

[b]ROBIN JEFFREY:[/b] "I don't think there's a great appreciation of Australia in India at the moment. Too often even today people will still stick the adjective white Australia in front of you because people were well aware of that, it had been well publicised in the time of the Indian national movement that Australia ran a racist immigration policy. And the legacy of that is still I think lingering in India, but there's a strange paradox in the Australia-India relationship although that relationship's been going on for a couple of hundred years in modern times, and although the languages are common and there are reasons for a great deal of interactivity, that interactivity often seems not to reach the levels of fulfilment that seem possible. And that's a paradox and a conundrum, nobody has satisfactorily explained why, there are various theories advanced but none of them conclusive."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] "Tessa, perceptions of Australia in Japan - are we still seen as some sort of White Outpost?

[b]TESSA MORRIS SUZUKI:[/b] Well I think what's happened in Japan is rather interesting. At a popular level I suppose the main perception of Australia in Japan has to do with tourism, wildlife, nature, koalas and sports to some extent. Ian Thorpe is extremely popular in Japan. But maybe at a slightly more academic level there actually has been quite a lot of interest recently in Japan in Australian multiculturalism and in the ways in which Australia's been engaging with Asia, because Japan, too, has its own problems in engaging with Asia, and although traditionally Japan is seen as having a very homogenous population it does in fact have a growing number of foreign residents and questions of multiculturalism have emerged in Japan as well. So it's been quite interesting for me to see the number of scholars who've come to Australia wanting to find out what's been happening in terms of multiculturalism in Australia. But also just in the last couple of years a certain sense that maybe the dynamism in relation to multiculturalism that was evident earlier in Australia is not so apparent today. And I noticed that a couple of weeks ago when a friend of mine from a Japanese university visited Australia we went to the bookshop and he looked around and then he said with great disappointment, where are all the books on multiculturalism? There used to be lots and now they're not there. So Australia's image in Japan I think is a slightly ambivalent one today.

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Well if I can come to you John, clearly we have quite a significant Chinese diaspora here resident within Australia. Has that been reflected do you think in general perceptions of Australia within the Peoples Republic?

[b]JOHN FITZGERALD:[/b] Probably more so than in other countries in the region. It's true also in China that many people recall for example Pauline Hanson who six years ago made a number of remarks and led a popular movement, which although it only ever had one member in the national parliament of 120, wasn't very popular at all, nevertheless created a widespread impression around Southeast and east Asia that the White Australia policy was alive and well. And it's very difficult to persuade people otherwise. In fact part of the rationale for promoting the study of Asia in this country in my view is to encourage Australians to engage with what Asians think about Australia, to understand that and where it needs correcting to correct it. Now it's interesting as you say that many, many people from China have now come to Australia, live in Australia, have relatives in Australia and if for example in my travels or my student's experience with people in China there's any reference to White Australia, the response is immediately to say ah you have no friends there? And oh yes I have a friend in Melbourne, oh yeah, well that's one of five-hundred-thousand people who now live in Australia who have Chinese ancestry. And once people put those two facts together, 1. that Australia has this history of apparent racism and it's certainly the case that it has a history of it, but 2. that there are five-hundred-thousand people of Chinese ancestry in this country working, living, coping and basically getting by quite happily and who are in constant contact with their friends and relatives in China and in Southeast Asia. And the impression gradually changes I suppose because of the in many ways the role of the Chinese Australians in this country and their role as intermediaries between Australia and other countries in the region."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] The report, MAXIMISING AUSTRALIA's ASIA KNOWLEDGE, which was put together by the Asian Studies Association of Australia highlights the fact that for a large number of Australians interaction with the countries of Asia has become a fact of life - whether for trade or government business, for tourism, study or migration.

But Robin Jeffrey who co-ordinated the Report warns that the momentum for the study of Asia which built up in Australia in the nineteen eighties and nineties shouldn't be taken for granted.

[b]ROBIN JEFFREY:[/b] "We start from a very low base. In the late 1980s when the last survey similar to ours was done the base was around two or three per cent of undergraduates, there was considerable improvement in some areas in the late eighties and early nineties, and what's happened subsequently I think is perhaps two or three fold. One, the Asian economic downturn led to a certain turning away in the popular Australian mind from Asia simply because parents I think and careers teachers in schools were saying well it doesn't look like it's going to earn you a living after all therefore don't opt at university. Within the second element within Australian universities in the last six or seven years there's been a severe financial problem, that's led to the cutting of staff particularly in areas like the social sciences and humanities and language teaching, so the availability has shrunk as the people capable of teaching them have shrunk. And together these make a third factor, which is the symbolic downplaying of the Asian fact in Australian public life over the last six or seven years, and that's been from both politicians but also implicitly from university administrations as they closed off particular bits of program in order to save money, which they had to do. So the three together have led to this stagnation in some areas of the study of Asia in Australia in the universities, and the actual decline in a few others.

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Yes you mentioned the Asian financial crisis and I suppose you can understand that students who might have thought that an Asian language would lead to a job or business with the region might be put off. But when you consider economics in the region and the powerhouse that China is becoming John, it must seem to you still slightly inexplicable?

[b]JOHN FITZGERALD:[/b] Yes well I suppose the figures aren't uniform, that's the first thing. We see a relative decline in the study of Indonesian but nothing matching that in the study of Chinese. Chinese has done remarkably well in difficult times. Why? Because China is seen as a place where first many of our friends come from, many Australians are of Chinese background, they have friends in this community and those friends want to talk Chinese with them. Two, there's a lot of toing and froing between Australia and China, something like a hundred thousand Australians go to China every year, and this has been the case now for 25 years, that's a lot of Australians. It's now the case that within a few years 100-thousand Chinese tourists will be coming to Australia each year. There have been of course delegations of business people and some have been visiting for many years, but tourism is another industry, another cultural enterprise, which leads to people to people exchanges which encourage language study. And thirdly, students learn from their parents and learn from their friends in their own circles that there are jobs in China, in Taiwan and in Hong Kong."

[b]ROBIN JEFFREY:[/b] "What John's saying is right but again one has to think of the bigger picture. There are about 830-thousand individual students attending either as part-timers or full-time at Australian universities in 2002. Last year there were about six-thousand individual students at most doing Chinese. So it's a tiny proportion of the whole cohort, Chinese is doing better than others but that cohort is tiny, it's three per cent or less of undergraduate studying an Asian languages, so three per cent of 830-thousand is some thousands, but it's not the number of Swiss or Dutch or Swedes who study English or indeed German or French or Russian I suspect.

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Well can we turn to Japan, Tessa, until the Asian financial crisis Japan was one of Australia's biggest trading partners, let alone the cultural exchanges, the number of Japanese tourists coming down here. How has Japanese fared?

[b]TESSA MORRIS SUZUKI:[/b] The story with Japanese has been a bit mixed. It hasn't done as badly as some other areas but clearly the great growth that happened in Japanese and Japanese studies in the late eighties and early nineties has tailed off. And obviously that has partly been associated with the downturn in the Japanese economy. I think it has probably also to some extent reflected the fact that there was perhaps a little bit of over-optimism amongst some of the people who went into the study of Japanese in the early years. I think some people went in with the idea that they would do Japanese for a couple of years and come out speaking almost perfect Japanese and going into a very well paid job. And neither of those things tended to happen. But also maybe if I can just add to some of the things that Robin said about the causes of the relatively low level of enrolments in Asian students, I think one of the problems was that in the late eighties and early nineties there was a very big push in Asian studies, and then there has tended to be a sense that we've done this, we've been there, we've done that, now it's time to move on to other things. And what hasn't been appreciated enough is that it's a really long term effort and there needs to be leadership and encouragement to keep on developing Asian studies over a much longer period, because as Robin said we're starting from such a small base. And it is hard, I mean it's very hard for a native English speaker to learn Chinese or Japanese, so it's really important for that push and that enthusiasm to continue for a longer period than it has, and I guess that's really one of the thoughts that we had in mind in producing the report."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] This is AUSTRALIA NOW - Program 8 - "Coming To Terms With Asia".

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] "Is teaching Asian languages at the primary school level also important in terms of promoting a healthy multiculturalism, healthy relations within our own community, which of course is increasingly ethnically diverse, Tessa?

[b]TESSA MORRIS SUZUKI:[/b] Yes I think it's very important. I think it's important in terms of a sort of broader educational goal and that is that learning foreign languages, particularly languages that are very different from the one that you speak normally in the classroom is an enormously mind broadening experience. It makes you learn about yourself, it makes you look in a new light at a whole lot of things that you otherwise take for granted. So even for children who won't go on to higher levels of study in those languages, I think it's a really important educational experience."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Well John, we'll give you the last word, in a world where religions, cultures can be in some nations a matter of life and death. Does truly cross-cultural communication and understanding of one another's cultures and religions become imperative in the current climate?

[b]JOHN FITZGERALD:[/b] Well yes this is true, in fact we live in a multicultural community and the cross-cultural communications we need to engage in are very easily learned at a school. When I think of my children in their school they attend an inner city school in Melbourne where about 50 per cent of the pupils would be of an Asian background, they're Asian Australians. This is a state school and much as they might learn about Asia or study an Asian language they learn a great deal more mixing and talking with their friends, friends from all over the world but particularly from India and Pakistan, Sri Lanka, China, Hong Kong, Taiwan, Malaysia, Singapore and Indonesia. And in a sense then the study of Asia is being normalised in our schools, it's just part of the normal relationships that children engage in. Now this too has been the strategy for promoting the study of Asia in schools. Of course there's always been Asian history, but now in a sense there's just history with Asia in it. So too there's maths with Asia in it, there's science with Asia in it, this has been the new trend over the last ten years to develop materials which introduce studies of Asia into the general curriculum so they just look as if they belong there and they're not about some alien place about which we must learn more in order to get by. This normalisation of the study of Asia in schools has been a terrific development over the last ten years and we trust it'll go on with the same kind of momentum into the next 10, 20 years in the future.

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] If your association's review grew out of a sense of crisis can you each feel that there is the opportunity to do something to address that crisis in Australia's Asia knowledge?

[b]ROBIN JEFFREY:[/b] "A parallel for me I suppose is Sputnik in the world in 1957, Sputnik had a catalytic effect on American education, it led in the following year to the National Education Defence Act, which fired Asian regional studies in the US for the next 30 years. And many would say did a great deal of good, produced a lot of very talented American scholars, diplomats, business people, and a lot of international understanding. I think Australia needs something rather like that, and that might be one of the good things that does come out of crisis, danger, opportunity.

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Tessa, we've had long standing relations with Japan in the post-war period. How important is it to maintain our knowledge of that powerhouse?

[b]TESSA MORRIS SUZUKI:[/b] I think it's enormously important and if I can put it in a slightly wider context, I think that what happens in Northeast Asia in the next few years is going to be absolutely critically important to the region. Again it's very much crisis and opportunity, particularly in relation to the ongoing issues on the Korean peninsula, the question of the normalisation of relations between Japan and North Korea, which is currently in an extremely tense state of negotiation. And in all of those areas Australia can be playing a positive role, it can be working with countries like Japan and South Korea to try and deal with some of the issues. In the Asian region as a whole I think too that the current crisis makes it so important that Australians at government level but not only at government level, at a range of levels within society are able to talk to one another about ways of confronting both the immediate security problems, but also confronting the longer term issues of development and human rights and so on that are all in a sense being highlighted by the current crisis around security and terrorism."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Yes it's quite ironic, we're talking about Asia as if Asia is out there when in fact of course large parts of Asia are here in Australia in the growing diasporas, Chinese communities, growing Indian communities and the number of Asian students who are studying down under. John, does that bode well for our ongoing engagement with the region?

[b]JOHN FITZGERALD:[/b] It does, this is part of the opportunity that we have in front of us. We sit here three ageing academics who've been in the business of promoting the study of Asia now for 10, 20 years variously between us, and the report - "Maximising Australia's Asia Knowledge" - which we've produced highlights the fact that we need to replace ourselves. That this current generation of Asian teachers and researchers in Australian universities needs to train the new generation to replace itself. And it's in fact among many of the immigrants from China, from East Asia and Southeast Asia that we find our best students, and we may well find the next generation of Australia's Asian specialists themselves having an Asian background, which will be a significant development in the study of Asia in this country. It's one we'd welcome and it's one we encourage, and it's an opportunity that we have to build on. In fact if there's a crisis in Australian universities surrounding the study of Asia and its languages, in a way it's up to the universities themselves to resolve that, it's up to us and our colleagues around the country to take advantage of this opportunity to train the new generation and to encourage them to commit themselves to promoting the study of Asia and Australia and greater understanding of Australia in the Region."

[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] That concludes today's discussion with Professors John Fitzgerald and Robin Jeffrey from Melbourne's La Trobe University and Professor Tessa Morris Suzuki from the Australian National University in Canberra.

And the report they co-authored for the Australian Asian Studies Association is called 'Maximising Australia's Asia Knowledge'.

Hope you can join me - Sue Slamen from Radio Australia - for our next program - 'The Great Population Debate'.

In the nineteenth century the catch-cry in Australia was 'Populate or Perish' and in contemporary Australia the migration program maintains modest population growth.

My thanks to Ryan Egan for Technical Production and the National Centre for Australian Studies at Monash University for academic advice.
[/quote]

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good material for listen training!

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