澳洲广播电台第三集：未完成的事业(页 1) - 澳洲留学移民 - 澳大利亚广播电台 -
2006-8-7 03:20
城市童话
澳洲广播电台第三集：未完成的事业
澳大利亚原住民的先辈们大约5万年前就来到了这片土地。他们和最近两个世纪以来陆续到达澳大利亚的移民对这片土地有着不同的看法。那么有关土地所有权的法律又是怎样反映出了这些差异呢？
[color=Red]详细请看二,三,四楼[/color]
澳大利亚原住民的先辈们大约5万年前就来到了这片土地。他们和最近两个世纪以来陆续到达澳大利亚的移民对这片土地有着不同的看法。那么有关土地所有权的法律又是怎样反映出了这些差异呢？
[color=Red]详细请看二,三,四楼[/color]
2006-8-7 03:22
城市童话
中文详细内容
[quote]
（插播音乐：《海岛之乡》(Island Home)，克里斯蒂娜·阿努演唱，选自专辑《红、黑、金的歌者》(Singers for the Red Black and Gold)）
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
大家好，这里是苏·斯拉梅为您主持的“今日澳洲”节目。今天让我们来继续一项“未完成的事业”，探讨一下有关原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民土地所有权的问题。
[b]佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯：[/b]
我们托雷斯海峡的老人家给孩子们讲传说故事时常常会说，别担心，孩子，你想做什么都可以，因为当年库克船长来到这里占领澳大利亚的时候，是背对着托雷斯海峡的。在我们的语言中和习俗里，跟人说话一定要面对着他。当你背过身去则表明你要跟其他人说话了。我们现在说起这个来可以一笑而过，但是当初作为故事讲给我们听的却是，库克船长当初占领澳大利亚时没有要托雷斯海峡。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯是托雷斯郡政会的第一位原住民市长。
一七七零年，库克船长率船队穿过托雷斯海峡，确认了澳大利亚与巴布亚新几内亚并非是连在一起的大陆，而托雷斯海峡则是一条通往太平洋的重要通道。
正是在托雷斯海峡的众多岛屿中，库克船长宣布了澳大利亚东海岸为英国所有，比英国在悉尼湾建立殖民地早了八年。
但是直到十九世纪下半叶，昆士兰州政府将托雷斯海峡各岛并入该州辖区时托雷斯海峡岛民才丧失了独立自主的地位。
[b]佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯：[/b]
继库克船长到达了这里之后，昆士兰殖民政府于一八三九年把托雷斯海峡（及其岛屿）划为该殖民地的一部分。我想如果你生活在这些岛上便能明白这项立法实际上甚至禁止岛民在岛屿间活动。虽然我们生活在各个不同的岛上，但是岛屿之间的贸易往来还是相当多的。然而，当殖民政府染指托雷斯海峡并设立行政机构，实际上是把我们限制在了各自居住的岛内，要在岛屿之间往来必须得到行政长官的许可。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
和澳洲大陆上的原住民一样，一些托雷斯海峡岛民被迫离开自己居住的岛屿前往教堂开办的慈善机构或政府设立的保留区，而其他人则南下到大陆上去寻找工作。
埃迪·科伊奇·马博原是汤斯维尔市詹姆斯·库克大学的园艺工人。 就在那时，他发现自己的家乡岛屿——梅尔岛亦称墨累岛——竟归属于大英帝国。
埃迪·“科伊奇”·马博和其他四位来自梅尔岛的托雷斯海峡岛民，发誓要让法律认可他们的原住民土地所有权。
由此，一场历时十年的法律之战拉开了帷幕……
[b]佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯：[/b]
人们一直存在这样一个疑问：究竟是什么原因促使他们这么做？他们努力奋斗的首要目标就是要让托雷斯海峡岛民的存在及其权利得到认可。然而让科伊奇和其他原告感到沮丧的是，他们可以引起政府注意的唯一办法就是勇敢地站出来说，听着，我们曾拥有托雷斯海峡的土地和海洋，所以在我们自己的岛屿之间来去往返和进行贸易活动无需得到任何人的许可。就是这个时候我才真正意识到，在那个时候，科伊奇大叔和其他人除此以外别无它法，因为科伊奇大叔他们是从道义的角度和政府理论，他们认为允许我们在自己的岛屿内自由活动是政府的道德义务。当然，政府的回答是在法律上我们有义务对自己的道德权利进行思考，当然是在澳大利亚的法律体系下进行思考。这就让我们相信，当科伊奇大叔他们对政府——特别是直接负责相关事务的州政府——提出质疑时，这场历时十年的原住民土地所有权之战便轰轰烈烈地展开了，托雷斯海峡问题也更多地引起联邦政府的注意。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
一九九二年，在埃迪·马博去世后五个月后，澳大利亚最高法院最终裁定在白人开拓殖民地之前澳大利亚并不是无人居住的大陆；若原住民能证明自己与其传统土地之间的连续关系，便享有该土地的所有权……
[b]新闻广播员：[/b]
在二百年后的今天晚上，澳大利亚的白人法律最终承认原住民曾经拥有这片大陆。堪培拉的最高法院今天裁决，托雷斯海峡墨累群岛居民享有对其土地的所有权。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
最高法院作出的《马博裁决》尤如一个里程碑。十八个月后，联邦政府于一九九三年通过了对原住民土地所有权问题的立法。
[b]联邦国会通过该议案时的实况：[/b]
肃静！投票结果是三十四票赞成，三十票反对，该项立法获得通过。
[b]记者：[/b]
簇拥在公共艺术馆的听众们欢呼雀跃，参议员们也相互拥抱以示庆贺。今天上午晚些时候该法案将返回至众议院，然后送呈御批，完成该法案正式成为法律之前的法定程序。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
《马博裁决》和随之而来的《原住民土地所有权法案》都可谓具有历史意义的决定。当澳大利亚国家博物馆新馆于二零零一年在首都堪培拉开馆时，这两份法律文件均被收入“最早的澳大利亚人展厅”。
[b]弗兰凯斯卡·库比罗：[/b]
在进入“最早的澳大利亚人展厅”前，让我们先看一下年代表。这是一个特殊的澳大利亚历史年代表，上面标注出了澳大利亚历史上具有重大意义的时刻。我们也把《马博裁决》列入其中作为该年代表的一部分，因为这个判决不仅对托雷斯海峡岛民，而且对澳大利亚所有的原住民来说都意义重大。所以，我们所展示的澳大利亚历史上的重要时期既包括了原住民的，也包括了非原住民的。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
弗兰切斯卡·库比罗来自北部地区的拉里基厄族（Larrikia），他是“最早的澳大利亚人展厅”的负责人。 该展厅是博物馆新设的永久性展厅中最大的一个。
[b]弗兰切斯卡·库比罗：[/b]
我们想让走进“最早的澳大利亚人展厅”的人们有一次非同寻常的体验。展厅重现了原住民进入他人土地时的情景，会有一些欢迎仪式，还要承认自己进入他人的土地。当你来到这里，走进这个展厅时，便已做好准备要进入一番不同的天地。为了营造气氛，我们在展厅内再现了烟火仪式。澳大利亚的很多原住民部族都举行烟火仪式，当然不是所有的，但大多数部族都有。烟火仪式包括净化、准备和欢迎三部分，这在原住民文化中很重要。当你踏入这个展厅的时候，你会发现在这里没有标签和文字性的说明，有的仅仅是一种感觉——身处一个异样的空间、耳边传来原住民音乐、目睹着原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民的舞蹈。之后我们以堪培拉地区恩冈那瓦尔部族（Ngunnawal）的方式向大家表示欢迎。我们将以岩壁画和艺术品的形式向人们展现澳大利亚不同原住民的文化，让人们了解他们是如何表现他们的梦创过程。通过这种方式，我们希望人们领悟到原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民与非原住民有着迥然不同的精神世界和历史历程。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
这个展览融入了很多高科技因素。我发现你们的展厅中设置了高科技的多媒体屏幕，一些孩子在前面跳舞，他们的影像会出现在屏幕上，这样便将他们带入了原住民的文化，这真是一种很有效的方法，对吗？
[b]弗兰切斯卡·库比罗：[/b]
确实是这样。这实际上是一种多媒体的互动体验。我们在屏幕前面的地面上安置了一些感应垫，当被触动时它们会激活屏幕上特定的动作及相应的歌曲。有趣的是，我们发现成年人在走过屏幕的时候，会径直走开而不会注意到这些；但孩子们却在屏幕前蹦蹦跳跳。所以孩子们能很快地将自己完全融入这个空间。高科技的音乐和原住民传统音乐完美结合，加上孩子们这些现代舞者的生动表演，向大家展示了当今的原住民文化仍然同往日一样生机蓬勃。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
在北部地区和南澳州这两个州实施土地所有权立法后，一九九三年由《马博裁决》产生的《原住民土地所有权法》为全国各地原住民争取和保护土地所有权开辟了道路。
格雷默·尼特是国家原住民土地所有权法庭的庭长。
[b]格雷默·尼特：[/b]
到目前为止，我们已经对三十起有关原住民土地所有权的案件作出了裁决，涉及的土地面积从托雷斯海峡的几百公顷到西澳某地方圆五万多平方公里不等。这些裁决中有三分之二到四分之三是通过各级政府、原住民土地所有者与牧场主、放牧人或采矿者之间的协商而作出的。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
正如你所说的，自十年前的《马博裁决》以来，澳大利亚最成功的原住民争取土地所有权的案例发生在西澳大利亚和昆士兰州，那么，在这两州以外，未能成功取得土地所有权的原住民情况又如何呢？对于那些被迫离开自己土地的原住民，由于无法在法庭上证明与故土的连续关系，想争取到土地所有权是不是就更困难了呢？
[b]格雷默·尼特：[/b]
这些原住民团体，比如澳大利亚东南部的原住民部族，要证明与故土的连续关系，在实际操作上的确会遇到更大的困难，因为他们要一直追溯到英王最初宣称拥有澳大利亚大陆主权的时候。目前在澳大利亚最高法院就有一个非常重要的案例：曾世代生活在墨累河沿岸的约塔·约塔（Yorta Yorta）原住民尽管经历了近一百到两百年的历史和社会的变迁，他们仍然在努力寻找证据，证明他们与故土间密切的连续关系依然存在。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
许多原住民部族曾被迫迁离繁衍生息的故土，移居到距离遥远的保留地。他们常常感到来自司法制度的重大压力，因为他们必须向法庭证明与其故土的连续关系，是这样吗？
[b]格雷默·尼特：[/b]
确实每个原住民部族都必须证明这一点，这就是我们在法律上所说的举证责任。也就是说，要求恢复土地所有权的原住民一方必须有充分的证据向另一方证明，或者说在法庭上向法官证明自己是这块土地的合法所有者。有些原住民部族在历史上发生过分裂，有些被强制性地迁移而散居在各地。因而，在实际法律操作上，他们要举证就愈发困难了。目前的相关法律尚无明确界定，究竟哪些部族的人民是一直居住在一片土地上的，部族组织仍然完整无缺，而哪些又是随着时光荏苒，被迫离开，飘零四方。意识到这一点，联邦政府在几年前设立了原住民土地公司。该公司利用联邦政府提供的资金购买土地，以帮助那些无法取得土地所有权的原住民部族，帮助那些由于历史变迁而在司法意义上失去了所有权但却需要以土地为基础延续部族生活的原住民群体。这种对土地的归属感，不是一般意义上的土地，而是特定部族对特定区域的归属感，也正是原住民土地所有权纷争及其解决的关键所在。这也是不同党派的政府在过去的几十年里通过不同方法一直在着手处理的问题。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
二零零二年是马博裁决的十周年纪念，埃迪·马博的家族成员应邀在民族和解周里访问墨尔本。
[b]介绍人：[/b]
我谨在此介绍来自布纳容部族（Bunarong）或说得更大点儿，来自库林族（Kulin）的卡洛琳·布里格斯。
[b]卡洛琳·布里格斯：[/b]
作为这片土地最初的拥有者，我欢迎您光临我们这片位于大海湾地区的布纳容部族的家园。今天是具有历史意义的“马博裁决”的纪念日，我特别欢迎埃迪·马博的妻子贝妮塔·马博、佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯和旺艾（Wongai）联合会代表的到来。我深知为赢得这一历史性判决他们所投入的精力和做出的奋斗和牺牲。所以今天，我们在这里怀着无比自豪的心情欢迎我们特殊的客人。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
卡洛琳，你曾说过你的家人与托雷斯海峡岛民有亲缘关系，对吗？
[b]卡洛琳·布里格斯：[/b]
我的儿子娶了一位来自达恩利岛（Darnley）或埃拉博岛（Erub）的托雷斯海岛姑娘，所以我有四个孙女，她们美丽可爱，不但懂得托雷斯海峡岛的语言，与岛上的亲人和大陆的文化血脉相连。我的女儿还为我生了外孙，于是我便又与威拉杰瑞部族（Wiradjeri）有了联系。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
那么对正在收听节目的海外听众来说，从这片土地的北端，北部地区和托雷斯海峡群岛，南到墨尔本，你们与自己的土地、文化和语言都有着这样的联系，是吗？
[b]卡洛琳·布里格斯：[/b]
是的，这就像那首歌的歌词或是一段旅程，是我们布纳容部族年轻人的旅程。由于我们与南方的土地有如此紧密的联系，我们不得不与别的部族联姻。这就是发生在我们族人身上的事。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
二零零二年，就在全国的原住民部族与他们的支持者庆祝具有历史意义的“马博裁决”十周年纪念之际，他们仍然为通过法律途径解决土地所有权争议所耗费的时间和资金感到沮丧和失望。
“马博裁决”三年之后，最高法院在对约克角的威克族（Wik）所提出的土地所有权要求作出了裁决，从而出现了原住民土地所有权可与牧场租用权共存的可能性。
这项裁决引起了轩然大波，每座房子的后院都有可能不属于房子现在的主人。于是在一九九八年， 联邦政府修订了《原住民土地所有权法案》，使得牧场租约的法律效力优先于原住民土地所有权。
二零零二年年中，最高法院对西澳州某原住民部族提出的土地所有权案件作出裁决：采矿业和石油业租约的法律效力也优先于原住民的土地所有权。
尽管原住民土地所有权持有者可以在被租赁给矿主或牧场主的土地上狩猎和捕鱼，但他们却不拥有这些土地及其地下的各种资源。
[b]新闻广播员：[/b]
最高法院最近就一个原住民土地所有权案件作出的裁决具有重大的意义，促使原住民领袖再次掀起了要求以政治而非司法手段解决土地所有权问题浪潮。在密瑞翁·噶雅容（Miriuwung Gajaerrong）裁决中，日前最高法院裁定，部分原住民土地所有权可与牧场及矿山租约共存，但这权利的存在并不意味着原住民土地所有者有权控制对该土地的使用。
[b]阿·马特：[/b]
我认为，这个国家在争取原住民土地所有权过程中浪费掉的资金数目实在是高得惊人。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
里奇·阿·马特是约克角土地委员会的执行主任。在墨尔本举行的一个以“未完成的事业”为主题的研讨会上，里奇对与会代表说，他认为原住民部族不应该再寄希望于法庭来圆满解决土地使用权的问题。
[b]里奇·阿·马特：[/b]
你看，人们早上一起床便说黑人得到了这个，黑人又得到了那个。大家应该明白，就像我今天上午举的那个例子，我们可以和政府官员、土地原主人还有律师一起去见牧场主，对他说，瞧，我们对你这片地开了个价，你觉得怎么样？你们可以讨价还价，可以协商，最终达成一致，使问题得以彻底解决。不用通过诉讼渠道，因为大家都知道，一旦打起官司，双方便要争个你死我活，都不会求同存异。我们不能再这么作了，因为在澳大利亚，通过协商来解决争议是唯一可行的方法，也是成本最低、最快捷的方法。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
事实上，原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民委员会主席杰夫·克拉克曾经指出，政府最好不要介入到土地所有权的争议之中。也许最好的办法是让原住民和牧场主、农场主还有矿主一起坐下来 ，通过协商达成公平而合理的协议。根据你的经验，这样作可行吗？
[b]里奇·阿·马特：[/b]
绝对可行。我作为一个原住民是这样看的，要让矿业公司、牧场主、渔业公司以及所有相关方面的代表坐下来和我们对话，进行交流。然后向所有我们认为相关的机构通报。到政府那儿，说我们已经达成了这样一个协议，你们就按照这个协议立法或者付诸实施吧。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
迄今为止仅对三十多个关于原住民土地所有权案件作出了裁决，仍有近六百个这样的请求有待处理。里奇·阿·马特指出，二零零一年与考马克（Comalco）矿业公司签订的《西约克角部族共存协定》是个很好的例子，体现了通过协商所能取得的成果。
退休牧场主卡米拉·考利在“未完成的事业”研讨会上说，个人的努力同样能够产生重要的影响。
在一九九六年，贡加里族人（Gungarri）对考利家位于昆士兰州东南地区的北扬乔畜牧场提出了土地所有权要求。从此，她便开始了对自己土地重新认识和与贡加里人达成和解的重要历程。
[b]卡米拉·考利：[/b]
我们四处寻找，为的是弄清他们究竟是谁。我们在这片土地上居住了二十二年，从未见过他们，那么他们又是何以感到自己与这片土地有着某种联系的呢？你知道，我们也问过前任业主，他们从一九一二年开始在这儿定居，也从未见过贡加里族人的影踪。这样说来，他们肯坐下来，向我们讲述他们的历史已经是很大度的了。埃塞尔婶婶第一次回来时告诉我们说，她的原话是：“我觉得这里有祖辈的神灵，但不知是谁的祖辈。”就在两个月后，她终于找到了有关自己身世的文献，原来她的祖母就出生在北扬乔（North Yancho）。这一发现令她兴奋不已，因为她所感受到的正是自己祖辈的神灵。我们知道，将原住民集中到保留区并把他们的子女带走的计划从二十世纪二、三十年代开始实行。少数原住民家庭获准留了下来，原因是，你知道，土地承租人说需要他们协助打理地产。然而原住民在北扬乔的实际生活在很久以前就已经终止了。在听他们讲述这儿的历史的过程中，我发现他们比我更加了解这块土地，尤其是那些已经去世的原住民老人，尽管他们离开这里已有不知多少年了，也许有四、五十年之久了。可是他们对这片土地了如指掌，他们知道与这片土地有关的种种传说。许多像鲁比婶婶这样的老人都问过我：“檀香树现在还在吗？”鲁比婶婶向我们描述了从前的檀香树生长的地方，过去他们常常去那儿采集烟火仪式上用的檀香木。她还记得自己被带到瑟堡（Cherbourg）前参加过的最后一场烟火仪式的情景。澳大利亚历史的遗憾就在于我们得寻觅土地的原主人，坐下来，请他们告诉我们这里的历史，我的意思是说这些都是我们本该知道的事儿。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
那么对这种土地的精神意义、这种与土地的归属感，也就是我们平常所说的原住民与其土地之间的特殊关系，你能以北扬乔的特殊地貌景观为例，跟我们讲讲你自己的体会吗？在埃塞尔婶婶和鲁比婶婶与你和你的家人在这片地上漫步时，这些原本熟悉的景物在你眼中发生了那些变化呢？
[b]卡米拉·考利：[/b]
北扬乔最美的地方是一片水洼地。这个地方之所以重要，原因就在于原住民要求恢复土地所有权并与我们开始进行实际对话后，我们才得知“水洼地”的源头位于贡加里族原居住地的北部。听戈登大叔和其他原住民讲述了“水洼地”的故事后，我才明白我们原来以为这儿没有常年不断的水源，所以原住民不可能在白人定居之前在这里生活过，你知道，诸如此类的荒唐想法，恰恰表明了我们对澳大利亚原住民游牧生活方式的一无所知。戈登大叔向我们解释道：“我们和你们不同，我们不会在一个地方大规模定居，用光这个地方的所有资源，而是随季节更换而搬迁。随着季节的更换，我们自然会沿着这个水源往下游走。”有趣的是，在土地所有权纷争所引起的恐慌渐渐消除之后，人们便能老实地告诉我，许多许多年前他们来到这里的时候，到处都是原住民的遗物。然而具有讽刺意味的是，这一恐慌消除的原因在于人们知道新的法案即将通过，关于土地所有权的纷争也将随之不复存在。 听了埃塞尔婶婶与鲁比婶婶的故事，知道了我的房子正建在原住民的露营地上，而只有天知道这片露营地已有几千年的历史了，因为人们说，在他们建果园、修水坝时，越往深挖，发现的原住民遗物就越多。于是，就在我骑着马，赶牛羊进圈时，我所看到的已不再是从前的羊群和景物；我仿佛看到了贡加里人如何利用这片土地并在这里漫游的景象。这是一个与这片土地有关的故事，这个自然保护区的主题乃至命名都来源于这个故事，这也是《共存》法案精神之所在。这实在是太好了。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
卡米拉·考利一家将他们一千二百英亩的北扬乔畜牧场提供给州政府，建成了一个自然保护区，以表示对原土地所有者权利的承认，并由贡加里族人自行决定其土地使用权。
在和解精神的指引下，贡加里族的长者们开始实施一项“野外生存”计划（out-station program），将原住民与非原住民需要照顾的儿童带到这片土地上，让他们在这儿一同分享原住民文化中的梦创时期的传统，一同学习原住民在丛林谋生的传统知识与技能。
（音乐：选自保罗·凯利的“小事、大事在发生” （Little Things, Big Things Grow）及“和解”主题音乐会专辑《冬梦》（Winter Dreaming）。）
这里是“今日澳洲”节目。感谢赖安·厄甘提供的技术制作。我是澳洲广播电台的苏·斯拉梅，期待着您收听我们的下一期节目“地为我用”（Taming the Land）， 届时我们将关注澳大利亚的土地管理及土地保护问题。
[/quote]
[quote]
（插播音乐：《海岛之乡》(Island Home)，克里斯蒂娜·阿努演唱，选自专辑《红、黑、金的歌者》(Singers for the Red Black and Gold)）
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
大家好，这里是苏·斯拉梅为您主持的“今日澳洲”节目。今天让我们来继续一项“未完成的事业”，探讨一下有关原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民土地所有权的问题。
[b]佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯：[/b]
我们托雷斯海峡的老人家给孩子们讲传说故事时常常会说，别担心，孩子，你想做什么都可以，因为当年库克船长来到这里占领澳大利亚的时候，是背对着托雷斯海峡的。在我们的语言中和习俗里，跟人说话一定要面对着他。当你背过身去则表明你要跟其他人说话了。我们现在说起这个来可以一笑而过，但是当初作为故事讲给我们听的却是，库克船长当初占领澳大利亚时没有要托雷斯海峡。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯是托雷斯郡政会的第一位原住民市长。
一七七零年，库克船长率船队穿过托雷斯海峡，确认了澳大利亚与巴布亚新几内亚并非是连在一起的大陆，而托雷斯海峡则是一条通往太平洋的重要通道。
正是在托雷斯海峡的众多岛屿中，库克船长宣布了澳大利亚东海岸为英国所有，比英国在悉尼湾建立殖民地早了八年。
但是直到十九世纪下半叶，昆士兰州政府将托雷斯海峡各岛并入该州辖区时托雷斯海峡岛民才丧失了独立自主的地位。
[b]佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯：[/b]
继库克船长到达了这里之后，昆士兰殖民政府于一八三九年把托雷斯海峡（及其岛屿）划为该殖民地的一部分。我想如果你生活在这些岛上便能明白这项立法实际上甚至禁止岛民在岛屿间活动。虽然我们生活在各个不同的岛上，但是岛屿之间的贸易往来还是相当多的。然而，当殖民政府染指托雷斯海峡并设立行政机构，实际上是把我们限制在了各自居住的岛内，要在岛屿之间往来必须得到行政长官的许可。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
和澳洲大陆上的原住民一样，一些托雷斯海峡岛民被迫离开自己居住的岛屿前往教堂开办的慈善机构或政府设立的保留区，而其他人则南下到大陆上去寻找工作。
埃迪·科伊奇·马博原是汤斯维尔市詹姆斯·库克大学的园艺工人。 就在那时，他发现自己的家乡岛屿——梅尔岛亦称墨累岛——竟归属于大英帝国。
埃迪·“科伊奇”·马博和其他四位来自梅尔岛的托雷斯海峡岛民，发誓要让法律认可他们的原住民土地所有权。
由此，一场历时十年的法律之战拉开了帷幕……
[b]佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯：[/b]
人们一直存在这样一个疑问：究竟是什么原因促使他们这么做？他们努力奋斗的首要目标就是要让托雷斯海峡岛民的存在及其权利得到认可。然而让科伊奇和其他原告感到沮丧的是，他们可以引起政府注意的唯一办法就是勇敢地站出来说，听着，我们曾拥有托雷斯海峡的土地和海洋，所以在我们自己的岛屿之间来去往返和进行贸易活动无需得到任何人的许可。就是这个时候我才真正意识到，在那个时候，科伊奇大叔和其他人除此以外别无它法，因为科伊奇大叔他们是从道义的角度和政府理论，他们认为允许我们在自己的岛屿内自由活动是政府的道德义务。当然，政府的回答是在法律上我们有义务对自己的道德权利进行思考，当然是在澳大利亚的法律体系下进行思考。这就让我们相信，当科伊奇大叔他们对政府——特别是直接负责相关事务的州政府——提出质疑时，这场历时十年的原住民土地所有权之战便轰轰烈烈地展开了，托雷斯海峡问题也更多地引起联邦政府的注意。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
一九九二年，在埃迪·马博去世后五个月后，澳大利亚最高法院最终裁定在白人开拓殖民地之前澳大利亚并不是无人居住的大陆；若原住民能证明自己与其传统土地之间的连续关系，便享有该土地的所有权……
[b]新闻广播员：[/b]
在二百年后的今天晚上，澳大利亚的白人法律最终承认原住民曾经拥有这片大陆。堪培拉的最高法院今天裁决，托雷斯海峡墨累群岛居民享有对其土地的所有权。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
最高法院作出的《马博裁决》尤如一个里程碑。十八个月后，联邦政府于一九九三年通过了对原住民土地所有权问题的立法。
[b]联邦国会通过该议案时的实况：[/b]
肃静！投票结果是三十四票赞成，三十票反对，该项立法获得通过。
[b]记者：[/b]
簇拥在公共艺术馆的听众们欢呼雀跃，参议员们也相互拥抱以示庆贺。今天上午晚些时候该法案将返回至众议院，然后送呈御批，完成该法案正式成为法律之前的法定程序。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
《马博裁决》和随之而来的《原住民土地所有权法案》都可谓具有历史意义的决定。当澳大利亚国家博物馆新馆于二零零一年在首都堪培拉开馆时，这两份法律文件均被收入“最早的澳大利亚人展厅”。
[b]弗兰凯斯卡·库比罗：[/b]
在进入“最早的澳大利亚人展厅”前，让我们先看一下年代表。这是一个特殊的澳大利亚历史年代表，上面标注出了澳大利亚历史上具有重大意义的时刻。我们也把《马博裁决》列入其中作为该年代表的一部分，因为这个判决不仅对托雷斯海峡岛民，而且对澳大利亚所有的原住民来说都意义重大。所以，我们所展示的澳大利亚历史上的重要时期既包括了原住民的，也包括了非原住民的。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
弗兰切斯卡·库比罗来自北部地区的拉里基厄族（Larrikia），他是“最早的澳大利亚人展厅”的负责人。 该展厅是博物馆新设的永久性展厅中最大的一个。
[b]弗兰切斯卡·库比罗：[/b]
我们想让走进“最早的澳大利亚人展厅”的人们有一次非同寻常的体验。展厅重现了原住民进入他人土地时的情景，会有一些欢迎仪式，还要承认自己进入他人的土地。当你来到这里，走进这个展厅时，便已做好准备要进入一番不同的天地。为了营造气氛，我们在展厅内再现了烟火仪式。澳大利亚的很多原住民部族都举行烟火仪式，当然不是所有的，但大多数部族都有。烟火仪式包括净化、准备和欢迎三部分，这在原住民文化中很重要。当你踏入这个展厅的时候，你会发现在这里没有标签和文字性的说明，有的仅仅是一种感觉——身处一个异样的空间、耳边传来原住民音乐、目睹着原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民的舞蹈。之后我们以堪培拉地区恩冈那瓦尔部族（Ngunnawal）的方式向大家表示欢迎。我们将以岩壁画和艺术品的形式向人们展现澳大利亚不同原住民的文化，让人们了解他们是如何表现他们的梦创过程。通过这种方式，我们希望人们领悟到原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民与非原住民有着迥然不同的精神世界和历史历程。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
这个展览融入了很多高科技因素。我发现你们的展厅中设置了高科技的多媒体屏幕，一些孩子在前面跳舞，他们的影像会出现在屏幕上，这样便将他们带入了原住民的文化，这真是一种很有效的方法，对吗？
[b]弗兰切斯卡·库比罗：[/b]
确实是这样。这实际上是一种多媒体的互动体验。我们在屏幕前面的地面上安置了一些感应垫，当被触动时它们会激活屏幕上特定的动作及相应的歌曲。有趣的是，我们发现成年人在走过屏幕的时候，会径直走开而不会注意到这些；但孩子们却在屏幕前蹦蹦跳跳。所以孩子们能很快地将自己完全融入这个空间。高科技的音乐和原住民传统音乐完美结合，加上孩子们这些现代舞者的生动表演，向大家展示了当今的原住民文化仍然同往日一样生机蓬勃。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
在北部地区和南澳州这两个州实施土地所有权立法后，一九九三年由《马博裁决》产生的《原住民土地所有权法》为全国各地原住民争取和保护土地所有权开辟了道路。
格雷默·尼特是国家原住民土地所有权法庭的庭长。
[b]格雷默·尼特：[/b]
到目前为止，我们已经对三十起有关原住民土地所有权的案件作出了裁决，涉及的土地面积从托雷斯海峡的几百公顷到西澳某地方圆五万多平方公里不等。这些裁决中有三分之二到四分之三是通过各级政府、原住民土地所有者与牧场主、放牧人或采矿者之间的协商而作出的。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
正如你所说的，自十年前的《马博裁决》以来，澳大利亚最成功的原住民争取土地所有权的案例发生在西澳大利亚和昆士兰州，那么，在这两州以外，未能成功取得土地所有权的原住民情况又如何呢？对于那些被迫离开自己土地的原住民，由于无法在法庭上证明与故土的连续关系，想争取到土地所有权是不是就更困难了呢？
[b]格雷默·尼特：[/b]
这些原住民团体，比如澳大利亚东南部的原住民部族，要证明与故土的连续关系，在实际操作上的确会遇到更大的困难，因为他们要一直追溯到英王最初宣称拥有澳大利亚大陆主权的时候。目前在澳大利亚最高法院就有一个非常重要的案例：曾世代生活在墨累河沿岸的约塔·约塔（Yorta Yorta）原住民尽管经历了近一百到两百年的历史和社会的变迁，他们仍然在努力寻找证据，证明他们与故土间密切的连续关系依然存在。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
许多原住民部族曾被迫迁离繁衍生息的故土，移居到距离遥远的保留地。他们常常感到来自司法制度的重大压力，因为他们必须向法庭证明与其故土的连续关系，是这样吗？
[b]格雷默·尼特：[/b]
确实每个原住民部族都必须证明这一点，这就是我们在法律上所说的举证责任。也就是说，要求恢复土地所有权的原住民一方必须有充分的证据向另一方证明，或者说在法庭上向法官证明自己是这块土地的合法所有者。有些原住民部族在历史上发生过分裂，有些被强制性地迁移而散居在各地。因而，在实际法律操作上，他们要举证就愈发困难了。目前的相关法律尚无明确界定，究竟哪些部族的人民是一直居住在一片土地上的，部族组织仍然完整无缺，而哪些又是随着时光荏苒，被迫离开，飘零四方。意识到这一点，联邦政府在几年前设立了原住民土地公司。该公司利用联邦政府提供的资金购买土地，以帮助那些无法取得土地所有权的原住民部族，帮助那些由于历史变迁而在司法意义上失去了所有权但却需要以土地为基础延续部族生活的原住民群体。这种对土地的归属感，不是一般意义上的土地，而是特定部族对特定区域的归属感，也正是原住民土地所有权纷争及其解决的关键所在。这也是不同党派的政府在过去的几十年里通过不同方法一直在着手处理的问题。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
二零零二年是马博裁决的十周年纪念，埃迪·马博的家族成员应邀在民族和解周里访问墨尔本。
[b]介绍人：[/b]
我谨在此介绍来自布纳容部族（Bunarong）或说得更大点儿，来自库林族（Kulin）的卡洛琳·布里格斯。
[b]卡洛琳·布里格斯：[/b]
作为这片土地最初的拥有者，我欢迎您光临我们这片位于大海湾地区的布纳容部族的家园。今天是具有历史意义的“马博裁决”的纪念日，我特别欢迎埃迪·马博的妻子贝妮塔·马博、佩德罗·斯蒂芬斯和旺艾（Wongai）联合会代表的到来。我深知为赢得这一历史性判决他们所投入的精力和做出的奋斗和牺牲。所以今天，我们在这里怀着无比自豪的心情欢迎我们特殊的客人。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
卡洛琳，你曾说过你的家人与托雷斯海峡岛民有亲缘关系，对吗？
[b]卡洛琳·布里格斯：[/b]
我的儿子娶了一位来自达恩利岛（Darnley）或埃拉博岛（Erub）的托雷斯海岛姑娘，所以我有四个孙女，她们美丽可爱，不但懂得托雷斯海峡岛的语言，与岛上的亲人和大陆的文化血脉相连。我的女儿还为我生了外孙，于是我便又与威拉杰瑞部族（Wiradjeri）有了联系。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
那么对正在收听节目的海外听众来说，从这片土地的北端，北部地区和托雷斯海峡群岛，南到墨尔本，你们与自己的土地、文化和语言都有着这样的联系，是吗？
[b]卡洛琳·布里格斯：[/b]
是的，这就像那首歌的歌词或是一段旅程，是我们布纳容部族年轻人的旅程。由于我们与南方的土地有如此紧密的联系，我们不得不与别的部族联姻。这就是发生在我们族人身上的事。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
二零零二年，就在全国的原住民部族与他们的支持者庆祝具有历史意义的“马博裁决”十周年纪念之际，他们仍然为通过法律途径解决土地所有权争议所耗费的时间和资金感到沮丧和失望。
“马博裁决”三年之后，最高法院在对约克角的威克族（Wik）所提出的土地所有权要求作出了裁决，从而出现了原住民土地所有权可与牧场租用权共存的可能性。
这项裁决引起了轩然大波，每座房子的后院都有可能不属于房子现在的主人。于是在一九九八年， 联邦政府修订了《原住民土地所有权法案》，使得牧场租约的法律效力优先于原住民土地所有权。
二零零二年年中，最高法院对西澳州某原住民部族提出的土地所有权案件作出裁决：采矿业和石油业租约的法律效力也优先于原住民的土地所有权。
尽管原住民土地所有权持有者可以在被租赁给矿主或牧场主的土地上狩猎和捕鱼，但他们却不拥有这些土地及其地下的各种资源。
[b]新闻广播员：[/b]
最高法院最近就一个原住民土地所有权案件作出的裁决具有重大的意义，促使原住民领袖再次掀起了要求以政治而非司法手段解决土地所有权问题浪潮。在密瑞翁·噶雅容（Miriuwung Gajaerrong）裁决中，日前最高法院裁定，部分原住民土地所有权可与牧场及矿山租约共存，但这权利的存在并不意味着原住民土地所有者有权控制对该土地的使用。
[b]阿·马特：[/b]
我认为，这个国家在争取原住民土地所有权过程中浪费掉的资金数目实在是高得惊人。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
里奇·阿·马特是约克角土地委员会的执行主任。在墨尔本举行的一个以“未完成的事业”为主题的研讨会上，里奇对与会代表说，他认为原住民部族不应该再寄希望于法庭来圆满解决土地使用权的问题。
[b]里奇·阿·马特：[/b]
你看，人们早上一起床便说黑人得到了这个，黑人又得到了那个。大家应该明白，就像我今天上午举的那个例子，我们可以和政府官员、土地原主人还有律师一起去见牧场主，对他说，瞧，我们对你这片地开了个价，你觉得怎么样？你们可以讨价还价，可以协商，最终达成一致，使问题得以彻底解决。不用通过诉讼渠道，因为大家都知道，一旦打起官司，双方便要争个你死我活，都不会求同存异。我们不能再这么作了，因为在澳大利亚，通过协商来解决争议是唯一可行的方法，也是成本最低、最快捷的方法。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
事实上，原住民和托雷斯海峡岛民委员会主席杰夫·克拉克曾经指出，政府最好不要介入到土地所有权的争议之中。也许最好的办法是让原住民和牧场主、农场主还有矿主一起坐下来 ，通过协商达成公平而合理的协议。根据你的经验，这样作可行吗？
[b]里奇·阿·马特：[/b]
绝对可行。我作为一个原住民是这样看的，要让矿业公司、牧场主、渔业公司以及所有相关方面的代表坐下来和我们对话，进行交流。然后向所有我们认为相关的机构通报。到政府那儿，说我们已经达成了这样一个协议，你们就按照这个协议立法或者付诸实施吧。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
迄今为止仅对三十多个关于原住民土地所有权案件作出了裁决，仍有近六百个这样的请求有待处理。里奇·阿·马特指出，二零零一年与考马克（Comalco）矿业公司签订的《西约克角部族共存协定》是个很好的例子，体现了通过协商所能取得的成果。
退休牧场主卡米拉·考利在“未完成的事业”研讨会上说，个人的努力同样能够产生重要的影响。
在一九九六年，贡加里族人（Gungarri）对考利家位于昆士兰州东南地区的北扬乔畜牧场提出了土地所有权要求。从此，她便开始了对自己土地重新认识和与贡加里人达成和解的重要历程。
[b]卡米拉·考利：[/b]
我们四处寻找，为的是弄清他们究竟是谁。我们在这片土地上居住了二十二年，从未见过他们，那么他们又是何以感到自己与这片土地有着某种联系的呢？你知道，我们也问过前任业主，他们从一九一二年开始在这儿定居，也从未见过贡加里族人的影踪。这样说来，他们肯坐下来，向我们讲述他们的历史已经是很大度的了。埃塞尔婶婶第一次回来时告诉我们说，她的原话是：“我觉得这里有祖辈的神灵，但不知是谁的祖辈。”就在两个月后，她终于找到了有关自己身世的文献，原来她的祖母就出生在北扬乔（North Yancho）。这一发现令她兴奋不已，因为她所感受到的正是自己祖辈的神灵。我们知道，将原住民集中到保留区并把他们的子女带走的计划从二十世纪二、三十年代开始实行。少数原住民家庭获准留了下来，原因是，你知道，土地承租人说需要他们协助打理地产。然而原住民在北扬乔的实际生活在很久以前就已经终止了。在听他们讲述这儿的历史的过程中，我发现他们比我更加了解这块土地，尤其是那些已经去世的原住民老人，尽管他们离开这里已有不知多少年了，也许有四、五十年之久了。可是他们对这片土地了如指掌，他们知道与这片土地有关的种种传说。许多像鲁比婶婶这样的老人都问过我：“檀香树现在还在吗？”鲁比婶婶向我们描述了从前的檀香树生长的地方，过去他们常常去那儿采集烟火仪式上用的檀香木。她还记得自己被带到瑟堡（Cherbourg）前参加过的最后一场烟火仪式的情景。澳大利亚历史的遗憾就在于我们得寻觅土地的原主人，坐下来，请他们告诉我们这里的历史，我的意思是说这些都是我们本该知道的事儿。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
那么对这种土地的精神意义、这种与土地的归属感，也就是我们平常所说的原住民与其土地之间的特殊关系，你能以北扬乔的特殊地貌景观为例，跟我们讲讲你自己的体会吗？在埃塞尔婶婶和鲁比婶婶与你和你的家人在这片地上漫步时，这些原本熟悉的景物在你眼中发生了那些变化呢？
[b]卡米拉·考利：[/b]
北扬乔最美的地方是一片水洼地。这个地方之所以重要，原因就在于原住民要求恢复土地所有权并与我们开始进行实际对话后，我们才得知“水洼地”的源头位于贡加里族原居住地的北部。听戈登大叔和其他原住民讲述了“水洼地”的故事后，我才明白我们原来以为这儿没有常年不断的水源，所以原住民不可能在白人定居之前在这里生活过，你知道，诸如此类的荒唐想法，恰恰表明了我们对澳大利亚原住民游牧生活方式的一无所知。戈登大叔向我们解释道：“我们和你们不同，我们不会在一个地方大规模定居，用光这个地方的所有资源，而是随季节更换而搬迁。随着季节的更换，我们自然会沿着这个水源往下游走。”有趣的是，在土地所有权纷争所引起的恐慌渐渐消除之后，人们便能老实地告诉我，许多许多年前他们来到这里的时候，到处都是原住民的遗物。然而具有讽刺意味的是，这一恐慌消除的原因在于人们知道新的法案即将通过，关于土地所有权的纷争也将随之不复存在。 听了埃塞尔婶婶与鲁比婶婶的故事，知道了我的房子正建在原住民的露营地上，而只有天知道这片露营地已有几千年的历史了，因为人们说，在他们建果园、修水坝时，越往深挖，发现的原住民遗物就越多。于是，就在我骑着马，赶牛羊进圈时，我所看到的已不再是从前的羊群和景物；我仿佛看到了贡加里人如何利用这片土地并在这里漫游的景象。这是一个与这片土地有关的故事，这个自然保护区的主题乃至命名都来源于这个故事，这也是《共存》法案精神之所在。这实在是太好了。
[b]苏·斯拉梅：[/b]
卡米拉·考利一家将他们一千二百英亩的北扬乔畜牧场提供给州政府，建成了一个自然保护区，以表示对原土地所有者权利的承认，并由贡加里族人自行决定其土地使用权。
在和解精神的指引下，贡加里族的长者们开始实施一项“野外生存”计划（out-station program），将原住民与非原住民需要照顾的儿童带到这片土地上，让他们在这儿一同分享原住民文化中的梦创时期的传统，一同学习原住民在丛林谋生的传统知识与技能。
（音乐：选自保罗·凯利的“小事、大事在发生” （Little Things, Big Things Grow）及“和解”主题音乐会专辑《冬梦》（Winter Dreaming）。）
这里是“今日澳洲”节目。感谢赖安·厄甘提供的技术制作。我是澳洲广播电台的苏·斯拉梅，期待着您收听我们的下一期节目“地为我用”（Taming the Land）， 届时我们将关注澳大利亚的土地管理及土地保护问题。
[/quote]
2006-8-7 03:24
城市童话
英文详细内容
[quote]
(Music: Island Home by Christine Anu, from the album Singers For The Red, Black and Gold)
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Hello - Sue Slamen with you for AUSTRALIA NOW.
Today, UNFINISHED BUSINESS; the issue of land rights for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
[b]PEDRO STEPHENS:[/b] "One of our folk lores in the Torres Strait when you listen to elders and they always say that no worry my boy, you can do what you want because when Captain Cook came and took possession of Australia he had his back turned on Torres Strait, so in our language and also in our custom if you're going to talk to someone you have to talk to them face on. But if you turn your back on them then you're talking to another audience. So we can laugh now but we were told that as a story at that time that Captain Cook took possession of Australia but not Torres Strait."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Pedro Stephens - the first indigenous Mayor of the Torres Shire Council.
By sailing through Torres Strait in 1770, Captain Cook confirmed that Australia was not linked to Papua New Guinea and that the Torres Strait provided an important sea-lane to the Pacific.
It was in the Torres Strait Islands, that Captain Cook took possession for England of the East Coast of Australia - eight years before the British established a colony at Sydney Cove.
But it wasn't until the second half of the nineteenth century that Torres Strait Islanders lost their independence when the Queensland State Government annexed their islands.
[b]PEDRO STEPHENS:[/b] "After Captain Cook came here then in '39 that Queensland annexed the Torres Strait as part of Queensland, and I think that when you do live in the Torres Strait that you become to understand the legislation that actually prohibits you to even move within your islands, because although that we live in an island environment, we did move and share with the trade winds of trades between islands. And specifically when the government came in and established administration in the Torres Strait that virtually locked us into individual islands where we had to get permission to move from the Administrator."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Like Aborigines on the mainland, some Torres Strait islanders were moved off their islands to church missions or government reserves while others sought work on the mainland.
When Eddie Koiki Mabo was working as a gardener at James Cook University in Townsville, he discovered that his island home, of Mer or Murray Island in fact belonged to the Crown.
With four other Torres Strait Islanders from Mer, Eddie 'Koiki' Mabo vowed to win legal recognition of their traditional native ownership.
It was a legal battle that was to take ten years to resolve…
[b]PEDRO STEPHENS:[/b] "A question always is that what is motivating them? It was the strive for recognition first for their people and their rights, and the frustrating part was that for Koiki and the other plaintiffs were that the only way that they really had to catch hold of the ears and the eyes of the government was to stand up and say hey, here in the Torres Strait before we do own our land, we do own our sea, and that's why we didn't have to get permission from anyone to move and to trade and to live within our island environment. That is when I really believe that Uncle Koiki and the others had to use the only means that was available to them at that time, because Uncle Koiki and them came from a moral perspective and said to the government that you know sort of you have a moral obligation to allow us to move freely in our lands. And of course the government response was that we have a legal obligation and that's been a concept of being sort of looking at our moral rights, which in the legal system of Australia and that's really proved to us in the Torres Strait is that when Uncle Koiki and the others challenged the government, especially the state in terms of because it was the state that was responsible for our affairs, and we need to understand that because I think that when native title through those ten years started building a very fast movement that Commonwealth started taking much more interest in the Torres Straits."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Five months after Eddie Mabo's death in 1992, the High Court of Australia ruled that Australia was not unoccupied at the time of white settlement and that native title exists where indigenous people can show a continuous association with their traditional land….
[b]NEWSREADER:[/b] "And finally tonight, after 200 years white Australian law has finally acknowledged that Aborigines once owned this continent. Today in Canberra the High Court ruled that residents of the Murray Islands in the Torres Strait owned customary title for their land."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Eighteen months after the High Court's landmark Mabo Decision, the Commonwealth Government introduced Native title legislation in 1993.
[b]PARLIAMENT:[/b] 'Order, result of the division there being 34 ayes and 30 nos, the question is resolved in the affirmative.'
[b]REPORTER:[/b] "The audience at a packed public gallery leapt to their feet and senators embraced each other. The bill is returned to the lower house later this morning and then sent off for royal assent, completing its transition into law."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Both the Mabo judgement and subsequent Native Title Act were historic decisions and when Australia's new National Museum opened in the nation's capital, Canberra in 2001, they were incorporated into 'The Gallery of First Australians'….
[b]FRANCHESCA CUBILLO:[/b] "Before you get into the gallery of the First Australians we look at the timeline, a particular timeline in Australian history, and in that it notes significant points in Australian history, and as a part of that we've incorporated the Mabo decision, which of course was very important for not only Torres Strait island community but also for the indigenous community in Australia. And so we present important historical periods within Australia showing both indigenous and non-indigenous history."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Franchesca Cubillo from the Larrakia community in Northern Australia, is in charge of 'The Gallery of First Australians' … the largest of the Museum's new permanent exhibitions.
[b]FRANCHESCA CUBILLO:[/b] "When you enter into the Gallery of First Australians what we have is an experience for the public. It relates to how indigenous people entered into the landscape of another person. There is this welcoming, there is this acknowledgement that you are entering into somebody else's country, and when you enter into it, into the gallery you are almost prepared for entering into a different landscape. And we do that through evoking a sense of smoking ceremony, smoking ceremonies took place in quite a few different indigenous communities within Australia, not all, but in the majority of communities it is a ceremony that involves a cleansing, a preparation, a welcoming, it's very important. And so there are no labels when you first walk into the gallery, there's just this experience of entering into a different space, hearing music, seeing Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander people performing at dance, and then we then look at what is our welcome from the Ngunnawal community, and they are the Aboriginal people of the Canberra region. And we show different Aboriginal cultures, how they represent their dreaming, we show it in the rock art, we show it in artefacts. And so we want to educate people to let them know that Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander spirituality and history is very different from non-indigenous.
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Here it's a very high-tech representation, I couldn't help but notice children dancing in front of the high-tech media screens you have here and the images incorporating them into the screen, introducing them into indigenous culture, it's a very effective means of introducing it?
[b]FRANCHESCA CUBILLO:[/b] It really is, it's in fact an interactive multimedia experience, and we have sensory pads in the floor within this space that actually activates particular movement on the screen and evokes particular songs. So it's really interesting because you see adults walking through and not realising and yet you see children jumping up and down in front of these screens. So children immerse themselves immediately within that space. And having contemporary performers with what is incorporating high-tech music with traditional sounds is a way to show that indigenous culture is as much alive today, as it was historically."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] While land rights legislation already existed in two Australian States - the Northern Territory and South Australia, the 1993 Native Title Act that flowed from Mabo - left the way open for indigenous communities - elsewhere - to seek recognition and protection of their traditional rights to their home country.
Graeme Neate is President of the National Native Title Tribunal.
[b]GRAEME NEATE:[/b] "We've had 30 determinations that native title exists from areas with a few hundred hectares in the Torres Strait, through to areas in excess of 50-thousand square kilometres in parts of Western Australia. And two-thirds to three-quarters of those decisions have been reached by agreement between all levels of government, the native titleholders and others, such as pastoralists and graziers and miners."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Now what of those unsuccessful native title applicants in states outside of Western Australia and Queensland, where as you say the most successful native claims have occurred since Mabo 10 years ago? Obviously it's more difficult for those Aboriginal communities who've been moved and who can't prove in courts of law a continuous relationship with what they see as their land?
[b]GRAEME NEATE:[/b] "Certainly there are greater challenges in a practical sense to indigenous communities in say south eastern Australian to establish that continuous connection back to their traditional country, dated back to the date when the Crown first assumed sovereignty. There is a very important case currently before the High Court of Australia in which the Yorta Yorta people, whose traditional country is along the Murray river are seeking to establish that they have sufficient connection despite a range of historical and social circumstances over the last 100 or 200 years."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] These are often tribal people who've been moved from what was their land to reservations a long way away, they feel they're up against a legal system that requires that they prove a connection to their land as the law stands?
[b]GRAEME NEATE:[/b] "Certainly each group has to establish that connection, they bear what in legal terms is called the onus of proof, it's for the people who assert native title rights to satisfy the other parties, or if it goes to court to satisfy a judge that they're the right people for that area of country. And this will be obviously much harder in a practical sense for groups who perhaps some generations ago were divided up and people were forcibly removed in some cases to different parts of the country. The legal position is still a little unclear on where the cut-off line is between groups who have maintained a physical presence on the land and who's corporate entity is still intact from those who've been more dispersed and perhaps have been moved off those particular area of lands in years gone by. And recognising this the commonwealth government established some years ago the Indigenous Land Corporation, which is federally funded to purchase land on behalf of those groups who can't establish their native title rights, who because of the tide of history have now in a legal sense at least perhaps lost rights which should be legally recognised, but still have needs as a community for a land base. And this sense of identity of people with land, not land generally but particular groups with particular areas, is really at the core of the native title debate, and the resolution of indigenous land justice issues, which in various ways governments of various persuasions have been coming to grips with over the last few decades."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] 2002 marked the tenth anniversary of the Mabo decision and members of Eddie Mabo's family were welcomed to Melbourne during National Reconciliation Week.
[b]INTRODUCING PERSON:[/b] "I'm just here to introduce Caroline Briggs from the Bunarong or the greater Kulin nations."
[b]CAROLINE BRIGGS:[/b] "As traditional owners of this country I welcome you to our land, the land in the great bay of the Bunarong people. Today is the anniversary of an historic Mabo decision, I'd like to make a special welcome to country, to Benita Mabo, the wife of Eddie Mabo, and Pedro Stephens and the Wongai Association. I understand the energies, the struggle and the sacrifice that must have been put into achieve this historic decision. And we are therefore very proud to welcome our special guests here - today."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] "Caroline, you were saying you have familial links to the Torres Strait islanders through your own family network?
[b]CAROLINE BRIGGS:[/b] Through my son he married a Torres Strait island girl from Darnley or Erub, and so I have four granddaughters, beautiful little women who know their language, still in touch with who they are from that end and also my culture as well from down here. I also have grandsons because my daughter has grandson, and the links with the Wiradjeri people.
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] So from really one end of the country, from Northern Australia, Torres Strait island down here south in Melbourne, for people who are listening overseas, you have those links with your land, your culture and your languages?
[b]CAROLINE BRIGGS:[/b] That's right, so it's like that song line or the journey, the journeys of our young people, and because we're so related down this end we've had to go out of country to marry. So that's what's happened to our people."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] While indigenous communities and their supporters across Australia celebrated in 2002 the tenth anniversary of the historic Mabo judgement, indigenous communities are frustrated at the time and money that's going into fighting for native title through the courts.
Three years after Mabo, the High Court found in its decision on a land claim from the Wik people of Cape York that native title may co-exist with a pastoral lease.
Wild claims followed that no-one's back yard would be safe and in 1998 the Commonwealth Government amended the Native Title Act so that pastoral leases would over-ride the interests of traditional indigenous land claimants.
In mid 2002, a land claim by an indigenous community in Western Australia resulted in another High Court determination that mining and petroleum leases also over-rode the rights of native titleholders.
While native titleholders might have some rights to hunt and to fish on land leased to miners or pastoralists, they don't own the land or the resources under the land.
[b]NEWSREADER:[/b] "The High Court's decision in the latest significant native title case has led to a renewed push by indigenous leaders for a political resolution rather than a judicial one. In what's known as the Miriuwung Gajaerrong decision, the High Court today ruled that native title can survive in part on pastoral and mineral leases, but that the surviving right does not mean the native titleholders can control access to the land."
[b]AH MAT:[/b] "I think the money that is wasted on native title claims in this country is appalling."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Richie Ah Mat, the Executive Director of the Cape York Land Council, and Richie told a Melbourne Conference called to discuss 'UNFINISHED BUSINESS' that indigenous communities should no longer pin their hopes on the courts to deliver satisfactory land use settlements.
[b]RICHIE [b]AH MAT:[/b][/b] "You know people get up and they say the black fella gets this, the black fella gets that. People have to understand, like I gave an example this morning you go to a pastoralist with governments, with traditional owners and with lawyers and you say look, here's an offer for your country, what do you think? And you bargain, you negotiate, you get an outcome, a settled outcome. You don't go through the litigation channel because everybody knows if you go through the litigation channel you know everybody's knocking one another's head off because nobody wants to meet the common ground. We have to forget about that; negotiated outcomes are the only way to go in Australia. It is the cheapest way, it is the quickest way.
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] The chairman of ATSIC Geoff Clark actually said governments might be better staying out of land claims, perhaps we'd be better to just sit Aboriginal people down with the pastoralists, the farmers and the miners and thrash out fair and appropriate agreements. In your experience this is the way to go?
[b]RICHIE [b]AH MAT:[/b][/b] Absolutely. I think what should happen from an indigenous persons' perspective is that we have to get the mining company, we have to get the pastoralists, we have to get the fishing industry, we have to get all industries to sit down and talk to us and we talk to them and then we go to wherever we want to go, governments and say listen, there's an agreement here, you just legislate or you just implement it."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] With just over 30 determinations of native title to date and nearly 600 applications still to be dealt with, Richie Ah Mat points to the Western Cape York Communities Co-existence agreement signed with the mining company, Comalco, in 2001 as a good example of what can be achieved through negotiation.
And retired pastoralist, Camilla Cowley told the UNFINISHED BUSINESS Conference that individuals can also make a difference.
Her personal journey of discovery and reconciliation began in 1996 when the Gungarri People lodged a native title claim over her family sheep and cattle property, 'North Yancho' in South East Queensland.
[b]CAMILLA COWLEY:[/b] "We sought out the Gungarri People because we wanted to find out who they were and you know where they had this idea that they had some connection to the land that we'd owned for 22 years and we'd never seen them. And you know we'd spoken to the previous owners who'd taken up the block in 1912 and they told us they'd never seen anyone either. So they were generous enough to just sit down with us and tell us their history. When Aunty Ethel first came back and told us, actually the words she used were, I feel the presence of the old people but I don't know whose old people they are. And it was a couple of months later that she finally discovered the documentation that her grandmother had been born on North Yancho, and she was so excited because the presence that she had felt was the presence of her own old people. So the program of gathering up and taking away began in the 1920s, 1930s. Some of the families were allowed to stay if the leaseholder said you know, we need them for the running of the property. But the actual living on North Yancho had ended a long, long time ago. But what I came to understand as I listened to, particularly the really older of the elders who have since passed on, they knew the country better than I did, but they hadn't been there in I don't know how many years, maybe 40 or 50 years they hadn't been there but they knew it so well. And they knew the stories that were connected to it. Aunty Ruby was one of the elders who asked me, and is the sandalwood still growing? And she described the area where they used to collect the sandalwood for the smoking ceremonies, and she remembered the last smoking ceremony before she'd been taken away to Cherbourg. The shame of Australia's history is that we had to find the traditional owners and sit down and ask them the history, I mean it's something we always should have known.
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Now this spiritual significance, this sense of place that we generally understand that indigenous people do have this unique relationship with their country. Could you share with us something of that in terms of the specific landscape of North Yancho that you began to see with different eyes when Aunty Ruby and Aunty Ethel walked the property with you and your family?
[b]CAMILLA COWLEY:[/b] The most beautiful part of North Yancho is the flooded country, and the significance of that after the native title claim and the actual sitting down and talking to the Gunggari, was the fact that this flooded country had its headwaters up in the northern area of the Gunggari home country. And having listened to Uncle Gordon and others talk about it you know this idea that you couldn't have been here before white man because there wasn't permanent water and ridiculous things like that that you know just betrays your complete ignorance of the lifestyle of nomadic Aboriginal Australia. You know Uncle Gordon explained to me that we weren't like you, we didn't settle in large communities and completely denude the area. We moved with the seasons and of course they moved with the seasons down that watercourse and it was really interesting that after a lot of the fear had died out of the whole native title debate, and ironically it had died out of the native title debate for all the wrong reasons because they knew it was going to be legislated practically out of existence, people were able to be honest enough to tell me that when they had arrived there many, many years before there had been Aboriginal artefacts everywhere. So with Aunty Ethel and Aunty Ruby's stories, with the knowledge then that the house I was living in was built on a campsite that could have been god knows how many thousands of years it had been a campsite, because they said as they dug deeper to plant an orchard and to build a dam every deeper layer they went the more and more artefacts there were. So as I just rode around the property mustering then I wasn't just seeing the sheep and the landscape as I've seen it before, I was seeing how the Gunggari would have used it, how they would have wandered it. And it was one of the stories that was connected to it that became the theme of and even the naming of the nature refuge that became part of the Co-Existence document - so that was wonderful."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Camilla Cowley's family made 1200 acres of their North Yancho property available to the state as a nature reserve in recognition of the traditional owners and for the Gunggari to determine who has access to it.
In the spirit of reconciliation - the Gunggari Elders have begun an out-station program that involves taking children at-risk, both indigenous and non-indigenous children onto the property to share their Dreamtime stories and learn their traditional bushcrafts.
(Music: From Little Things, Big Things Grow by Paul Kelly, from the album Winter Dreaming - A Concert for Reconciliation)
And that's AUSTRALIAN NOW for today - thanks to Ryan Egan for technical production. Join me - Sue Slamen on Radio Australia next week for TAMING THE LAND - when we'll look at land management and land care issues in Australia.
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(Music: Island Home by Christine Anu, from the album Singers For The Red, Black and Gold)
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Hello - Sue Slamen with you for AUSTRALIA NOW.
Today, UNFINISHED BUSINESS; the issue of land rights for Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander peoples.
[b]PEDRO STEPHENS:[/b] "One of our folk lores in the Torres Strait when you listen to elders and they always say that no worry my boy, you can do what you want because when Captain Cook came and took possession of Australia he had his back turned on Torres Strait, so in our language and also in our custom if you're going to talk to someone you have to talk to them face on. But if you turn your back on them then you're talking to another audience. So we can laugh now but we were told that as a story at that time that Captain Cook took possession of Australia but not Torres Strait."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Pedro Stephens - the first indigenous Mayor of the Torres Shire Council.
By sailing through Torres Strait in 1770, Captain Cook confirmed that Australia was not linked to Papua New Guinea and that the Torres Strait provided an important sea-lane to the Pacific.
It was in the Torres Strait Islands, that Captain Cook took possession for England of the East Coast of Australia - eight years before the British established a colony at Sydney Cove.
But it wasn't until the second half of the nineteenth century that Torres Strait Islanders lost their independence when the Queensland State Government annexed their islands.
[b]PEDRO STEPHENS:[/b] "After Captain Cook came here then in '39 that Queensland annexed the Torres Strait as part of Queensland, and I think that when you do live in the Torres Strait that you become to understand the legislation that actually prohibits you to even move within your islands, because although that we live in an island environment, we did move and share with the trade winds of trades between islands. And specifically when the government came in and established administration in the Torres Strait that virtually locked us into individual islands where we had to get permission to move from the Administrator."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Like Aborigines on the mainland, some Torres Strait islanders were moved off their islands to church missions or government reserves while others sought work on the mainland.
When Eddie Koiki Mabo was working as a gardener at James Cook University in Townsville, he discovered that his island home, of Mer or Murray Island in fact belonged to the Crown.
With four other Torres Strait Islanders from Mer, Eddie 'Koiki' Mabo vowed to win legal recognition of their traditional native ownership.
It was a legal battle that was to take ten years to resolve…
[b]PEDRO STEPHENS:[/b] "A question always is that what is motivating them? It was the strive for recognition first for their people and their rights, and the frustrating part was that for Koiki and the other plaintiffs were that the only way that they really had to catch hold of the ears and the eyes of the government was to stand up and say hey, here in the Torres Strait before we do own our land, we do own our sea, and that's why we didn't have to get permission from anyone to move and to trade and to live within our island environment. That is when I really believe that Uncle Koiki and the others had to use the only means that was available to them at that time, because Uncle Koiki and them came from a moral perspective and said to the government that you know sort of you have a moral obligation to allow us to move freely in our lands. And of course the government response was that we have a legal obligation and that's been a concept of being sort of looking at our moral rights, which in the legal system of Australia and that's really proved to us in the Torres Strait is that when Uncle Koiki and the others challenged the government, especially the state in terms of because it was the state that was responsible for our affairs, and we need to understand that because I think that when native title through those ten years started building a very fast movement that Commonwealth started taking much more interest in the Torres Straits."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Five months after Eddie Mabo's death in 1992, the High Court of Australia ruled that Australia was not unoccupied at the time of white settlement and that native title exists where indigenous people can show a continuous association with their traditional land….
[b]NEWSREADER:[/b] "And finally tonight, after 200 years white Australian law has finally acknowledged that Aborigines once owned this continent. Today in Canberra the High Court ruled that residents of the Murray Islands in the Torres Strait owned customary title for their land."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Eighteen months after the High Court's landmark Mabo Decision, the Commonwealth Government introduced Native title legislation in 1993.
[b]PARLIAMENT:[/b] 'Order, result of the division there being 34 ayes and 30 nos, the question is resolved in the affirmative.'
[b]REPORTER:[/b] "The audience at a packed public gallery leapt to their feet and senators embraced each other. The bill is returned to the lower house later this morning and then sent off for royal assent, completing its transition into law."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Both the Mabo judgement and subsequent Native Title Act were historic decisions and when Australia's new National Museum opened in the nation's capital, Canberra in 2001, they were incorporated into 'The Gallery of First Australians'….
[b]FRANCHESCA CUBILLO:[/b] "Before you get into the gallery of the First Australians we look at the timeline, a particular timeline in Australian history, and in that it notes significant points in Australian history, and as a part of that we've incorporated the Mabo decision, which of course was very important for not only Torres Strait island community but also for the indigenous community in Australia. And so we present important historical periods within Australia showing both indigenous and non-indigenous history."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Franchesca Cubillo from the Larrakia community in Northern Australia, is in charge of 'The Gallery of First Australians' … the largest of the Museum's new permanent exhibitions.
[b]FRANCHESCA CUBILLO:[/b] "When you enter into the Gallery of First Australians what we have is an experience for the public. It relates to how indigenous people entered into the landscape of another person. There is this welcoming, there is this acknowledgement that you are entering into somebody else's country, and when you enter into it, into the gallery you are almost prepared for entering into a different landscape. And we do that through evoking a sense of smoking ceremony, smoking ceremonies took place in quite a few different indigenous communities within Australia, not all, but in the majority of communities it is a ceremony that involves a cleansing, a preparation, a welcoming, it's very important. And so there are no labels when you first walk into the gallery, there's just this experience of entering into a different space, hearing music, seeing Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander people performing at dance, and then we then look at what is our welcome from the Ngunnawal community, and they are the Aboriginal people of the Canberra region. And we show different Aboriginal cultures, how they represent their dreaming, we show it in the rock art, we show it in artefacts. And so we want to educate people to let them know that Aboriginal and Torres Strait islander spirituality and history is very different from non-indigenous.
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Here it's a very high-tech representation, I couldn't help but notice children dancing in front of the high-tech media screens you have here and the images incorporating them into the screen, introducing them into indigenous culture, it's a very effective means of introducing it?
[b]FRANCHESCA CUBILLO:[/b] It really is, it's in fact an interactive multimedia experience, and we have sensory pads in the floor within this space that actually activates particular movement on the screen and evokes particular songs. So it's really interesting because you see adults walking through and not realising and yet you see children jumping up and down in front of these screens. So children immerse themselves immediately within that space. And having contemporary performers with what is incorporating high-tech music with traditional sounds is a way to show that indigenous culture is as much alive today, as it was historically."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] While land rights legislation already existed in two Australian States - the Northern Territory and South Australia, the 1993 Native Title Act that flowed from Mabo - left the way open for indigenous communities - elsewhere - to seek recognition and protection of their traditional rights to their home country.
Graeme Neate is President of the National Native Title Tribunal.
[b]GRAEME NEATE:[/b] "We've had 30 determinations that native title exists from areas with a few hundred hectares in the Torres Strait, through to areas in excess of 50-thousand square kilometres in parts of Western Australia. And two-thirds to three-quarters of those decisions have been reached by agreement between all levels of government, the native titleholders and others, such as pastoralists and graziers and miners."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Now what of those unsuccessful native title applicants in states outside of Western Australia and Queensland, where as you say the most successful native claims have occurred since Mabo 10 years ago? Obviously it's more difficult for those Aboriginal communities who've been moved and who can't prove in courts of law a continuous relationship with what they see as their land?
[b]GRAEME NEATE:[/b] "Certainly there are greater challenges in a practical sense to indigenous communities in say south eastern Australian to establish that continuous connection back to their traditional country, dated back to the date when the Crown first assumed sovereignty. There is a very important case currently before the High Court of Australia in which the Yorta Yorta people, whose traditional country is along the Murray river are seeking to establish that they have sufficient connection despite a range of historical and social circumstances over the last 100 or 200 years."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] These are often tribal people who've been moved from what was their land to reservations a long way away, they feel they're up against a legal system that requires that they prove a connection to their land as the law stands?
[b]GRAEME NEATE:[/b] "Certainly each group has to establish that connection, they bear what in legal terms is called the onus of proof, it's for the people who assert native title rights to satisfy the other parties, or if it goes to court to satisfy a judge that they're the right people for that area of country. And this will be obviously much harder in a practical sense for groups who perhaps some generations ago were divided up and people were forcibly removed in some cases to different parts of the country. The legal position is still a little unclear on where the cut-off line is between groups who have maintained a physical presence on the land and who's corporate entity is still intact from those who've been more dispersed and perhaps have been moved off those particular area of lands in years gone by. And recognising this the commonwealth government established some years ago the Indigenous Land Corporation, which is federally funded to purchase land on behalf of those groups who can't establish their native title rights, who because of the tide of history have now in a legal sense at least perhaps lost rights which should be legally recognised, but still have needs as a community for a land base. And this sense of identity of people with land, not land generally but particular groups with particular areas, is really at the core of the native title debate, and the resolution of indigenous land justice issues, which in various ways governments of various persuasions have been coming to grips with over the last few decades."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] 2002 marked the tenth anniversary of the Mabo decision and members of Eddie Mabo's family were welcomed to Melbourne during National Reconciliation Week.
[b]INTRODUCING PERSON:[/b] "I'm just here to introduce Caroline Briggs from the Bunarong or the greater Kulin nations."
[b]CAROLINE BRIGGS:[/b] "As traditional owners of this country I welcome you to our land, the land in the great bay of the Bunarong people. Today is the anniversary of an historic Mabo decision, I'd like to make a special welcome to country, to Benita Mabo, the wife of Eddie Mabo, and Pedro Stephens and the Wongai Association. I understand the energies, the struggle and the sacrifice that must have been put into achieve this historic decision. And we are therefore very proud to welcome our special guests here - today."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] "Caroline, you were saying you have familial links to the Torres Strait islanders through your own family network?
[b]CAROLINE BRIGGS:[/b] Through my son he married a Torres Strait island girl from Darnley or Erub, and so I have four granddaughters, beautiful little women who know their language, still in touch with who they are from that end and also my culture as well from down here. I also have grandsons because my daughter has grandson, and the links with the Wiradjeri people.
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] So from really one end of the country, from Northern Australia, Torres Strait island down here south in Melbourne, for people who are listening overseas, you have those links with your land, your culture and your languages?
[b]CAROLINE BRIGGS:[/b] That's right, so it's like that song line or the journey, the journeys of our young people, and because we're so related down this end we've had to go out of country to marry. So that's what's happened to our people."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] While indigenous communities and their supporters across Australia celebrated in 2002 the tenth anniversary of the historic Mabo judgement, indigenous communities are frustrated at the time and money that's going into fighting for native title through the courts.
Three years after Mabo, the High Court found in its decision on a land claim from the Wik people of Cape York that native title may co-exist with a pastoral lease.
Wild claims followed that no-one's back yard would be safe and in 1998 the Commonwealth Government amended the Native Title Act so that pastoral leases would over-ride the interests of traditional indigenous land claimants.
In mid 2002, a land claim by an indigenous community in Western Australia resulted in another High Court determination that mining and petroleum leases also over-rode the rights of native titleholders.
While native titleholders might have some rights to hunt and to fish on land leased to miners or pastoralists, they don't own the land or the resources under the land.
[b]NEWSREADER:[/b] "The High Court's decision in the latest significant native title case has led to a renewed push by indigenous leaders for a political resolution rather than a judicial one. In what's known as the Miriuwung Gajaerrong decision, the High Court today ruled that native title can survive in part on pastoral and mineral leases, but that the surviving right does not mean the native titleholders can control access to the land."
[b]AH MAT:[/b] "I think the money that is wasted on native title claims in this country is appalling."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Richie Ah Mat, the Executive Director of the Cape York Land Council, and Richie told a Melbourne Conference called to discuss 'UNFINISHED BUSINESS' that indigenous communities should no longer pin their hopes on the courts to deliver satisfactory land use settlements.
[b]RICHIE [b]AH MAT:[/b][/b] "You know people get up and they say the black fella gets this, the black fella gets that. People have to understand, like I gave an example this morning you go to a pastoralist with governments, with traditional owners and with lawyers and you say look, here's an offer for your country, what do you think? And you bargain, you negotiate, you get an outcome, a settled outcome. You don't go through the litigation channel because everybody knows if you go through the litigation channel you know everybody's knocking one another's head off because nobody wants to meet the common ground. We have to forget about that; negotiated outcomes are the only way to go in Australia. It is the cheapest way, it is the quickest way.
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] The chairman of ATSIC Geoff Clark actually said governments might be better staying out of land claims, perhaps we'd be better to just sit Aboriginal people down with the pastoralists, the farmers and the miners and thrash out fair and appropriate agreements. In your experience this is the way to go?
[b]RICHIE [b]AH MAT:[/b][/b] Absolutely. I think what should happen from an indigenous persons' perspective is that we have to get the mining company, we have to get the pastoralists, we have to get the fishing industry, we have to get all industries to sit down and talk to us and we talk to them and then we go to wherever we want to go, governments and say listen, there's an agreement here, you just legislate or you just implement it."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] With just over 30 determinations of native title to date and nearly 600 applications still to be dealt with, Richie Ah Mat points to the Western Cape York Communities Co-existence agreement signed with the mining company, Comalco, in 2001 as a good example of what can be achieved through negotiation.
And retired pastoralist, Camilla Cowley told the UNFINISHED BUSINESS Conference that individuals can also make a difference.
Her personal journey of discovery and reconciliation began in 1996 when the Gungarri People lodged a native title claim over her family sheep and cattle property, 'North Yancho' in South East Queensland.
[b]CAMILLA COWLEY:[/b] "We sought out the Gungarri People because we wanted to find out who they were and you know where they had this idea that they had some connection to the land that we'd owned for 22 years and we'd never seen them. And you know we'd spoken to the previous owners who'd taken up the block in 1912 and they told us they'd never seen anyone either. So they were generous enough to just sit down with us and tell us their history. When Aunty Ethel first came back and told us, actually the words she used were, I feel the presence of the old people but I don't know whose old people they are. And it was a couple of months later that she finally discovered the documentation that her grandmother had been born on North Yancho, and she was so excited because the presence that she had felt was the presence of her own old people. So the program of gathering up and taking away began in the 1920s, 1930s. Some of the families were allowed to stay if the leaseholder said you know, we need them for the running of the property. But the actual living on North Yancho had ended a long, long time ago. But what I came to understand as I listened to, particularly the really older of the elders who have since passed on, they knew the country better than I did, but they hadn't been there in I don't know how many years, maybe 40 or 50 years they hadn't been there but they knew it so well. And they knew the stories that were connected to it. Aunty Ruby was one of the elders who asked me, and is the sandalwood still growing? And she described the area where they used to collect the sandalwood for the smoking ceremonies, and she remembered the last smoking ceremony before she'd been taken away to Cherbourg. The shame of Australia's history is that we had to find the traditional owners and sit down and ask them the history, I mean it's something we always should have known.
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Now this spiritual significance, this sense of place that we generally understand that indigenous people do have this unique relationship with their country. Could you share with us something of that in terms of the specific landscape of North Yancho that you began to see with different eyes when Aunty Ruby and Aunty Ethel walked the property with you and your family?
[b]CAMILLA COWLEY:[/b] The most beautiful part of North Yancho is the flooded country, and the significance of that after the native title claim and the actual sitting down and talking to the Gunggari, was the fact that this flooded country had its headwaters up in the northern area of the Gunggari home country. And having listened to Uncle Gordon and others talk about it you know this idea that you couldn't have been here before white man because there wasn't permanent water and ridiculous things like that that you know just betrays your complete ignorance of the lifestyle of nomadic Aboriginal Australia. You know Uncle Gordon explained to me that we weren't like you, we didn't settle in large communities and completely denude the area. We moved with the seasons and of course they moved with the seasons down that watercourse and it was really interesting that after a lot of the fear had died out of the whole native title debate, and ironically it had died out of the native title debate for all the wrong reasons because they knew it was going to be legislated practically out of existence, people were able to be honest enough to tell me that when they had arrived there many, many years before there had been Aboriginal artefacts everywhere. So with Aunty Ethel and Aunty Ruby's stories, with the knowledge then that the house I was living in was built on a campsite that could have been god knows how many thousands of years it had been a campsite, because they said as they dug deeper to plant an orchard and to build a dam every deeper layer they went the more and more artefacts there were. So as I just rode around the property mustering then I wasn't just seeing the sheep and the landscape as I've seen it before, I was seeing how the Gunggari would have used it, how they would have wandered it. And it was one of the stories that was connected to it that became the theme of and even the naming of the nature refuge that became part of the Co-Existence document - so that was wonderful."
[b]SUE SLAMEN:[/b] Camilla Cowley's family made 1200 acres of their North Yancho property available to the state as a nature reserve in recognition of the traditional owners and for the Gunggari to determine who has access to it.
In the spirit of reconciliation - the Gunggari Elders have begun an out-station program that involves taking children at-risk, both indigenous and non-indigenous children onto the property to share their Dreamtime stories and learn their traditional bushcrafts.
(Music: From Little Things, Big Things Grow by Paul Kelly, from the album Winter Dreaming - A Concert for Reconciliation)
And that's AUSTRALIAN NOW for today - thanks to Ryan Egan for technical production. Join me - Sue Slamen on Radio Australia next week for TAMING THE LAND - when we'll look at land management and land care issues in Australia.
[/quote]
2006-8-7 03:25
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